Under the law

[kwikphilly]

Quote

It is vital you can differentiate between keeping the works of rabbinical law versus keeping the works of the Mosaic Law

  The Mosaic law Converts the soul.  

Faith comes by hearing the Mosaic Law.

                      inChrist

You're changing,adding to,re-writing the Scriptures inChrist.....this is not what the Word of God says and Giller is doing a good job of trying to explain,

Don't give up yet Giller,our HOPE remains in Christ Jesus!                                                 With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Guest Teditis]

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"

Answer: The key to understanding the relationship between the Christian and the Law is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).

In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some of it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.
 

(https://gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html)

[firestormx]

11 hours ago, inchrist said:

Romans 10:17New International Version (NIV)

17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

We are SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, as this was always the case even under the Abrahamic & Mosaic Covenants. No person was ever justified by keeping the Law.

But after we are justified by grace through faith, the Holy Spirit brings us into SANCTIFICATION, by teaching us to obey the Mosaic law ----not the laws of men being the the works of the law

It is vital you can differentiate between keeping the works of rabbinical law versus keeping the works of the Mosaic Law

 

 

So why dont you observe the law like Paul did after he was saved?

 

 

I underlined, bolded and italicized a portion of your answer above about

 "the Holy Spirit brings us into SANCTIFICATION, by teaching us to obey the Mosaic law "

 

 Now you stated above this that we are saved by grace through faith. However, it sounds like with the statement I highlighted above you are saying we stay in a right standing and relationship with God by keeping the Mosaic law. Could you please clarify this for me? Do I understand you correctly?

Edited November 29, 2016 by firestormx

[kwikphilly]

Quote

So the first step is Grace saved by faith

Saved BY GRACE.....through our Faith my Friend and not merely by anything we believe but in WHOM we BELIEVE,Gods Grace how we are SAVED because Jesus Finished Work on the cross reconciled us back to God,He paid our debt in full!.......We are not SANCTIFIED by teaching us to obey the Law Until this is clarified & Understood & Received we cannot proceed.......

[firestormx]

12 hours ago, inchrist said:

If we do not follow Gods law on how to live holy, set apart, victorious then how can one possibly remain in right standing with God and continue that relationship?

 

 

 

 

 

Through Jesus Christ. Jesus said what he cleans is completely clean.  The Lord said through the Apostle Paul, We are the Righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. We are able to have and maintain A relationship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit because of Jesus Christ. The easiest way I know to describe it would be the following example:

The Father owns a garden and Jesus is the gardener. We are the fruit trees. We get planted in God's garden ( salvation ) , by Jesus Christ . We on our own,  have no ability to get ourselves there. We remain in God's garden ( relationship and sanctification ) because of Jesus Christ. Once again, we have no control over staying in the garden by anything we do. It's all in the gardener's hands ( Jesus ). However, because we have been planted in God's garden and tended to by God's gardener ( Jesus ) we will bring forth certain fruit ( works, behavior )  that a tree planted in God's garden should produce.

Likewise, we are saved by Jesus Christ. We stay in a right relationship with God Because of Jesus Christ. Finally, Because we have been placed by Jesus Christ in this relationship with the Father and Jesus keeps us in this relationship, then we will be conformed more and more into the image of Jesus Christ. Doing the works he did from the heart. Love, hope, and faith. These should spring forth from us in word and deed. 

 

I understand your dilemma with this. What tells us what is right and wrong? How can we say homosexuality is a sin when it is from the mosaic law that we get it's a sin from. Then turn around and say we don't have to follow the law at all. I think I know and understand where you are coming from now. I just understand Jesus is not only why I am saved, but How I stay saved. I'm not osas. I stumble daily. Make mistakes daily. But I believe with all my heart, that as long as I am,  from my heart , following Jesus. Then I have no need to worry about my salvation. For I am not saved because of what I do or don't do daily but because of what Jesus did once and then sat down and the right hand of the Father. 

 

God bless you

Firestormx

Joseph

Edited November 29, 2016 by firestormx

[Truth Seeker]

Amen inchrist! I have asked these same questions on what is and what is not sin and cannot get a definitive answer from anyone. They throw out terms like the law of love or the law of liberty but they never will get specific on what is and what is not sin. I am sick of seeing the headlines of this "Christian" coming out as homosexual or hearing Christians talk about the ungodly tv shows and movies that they watch or hearing about yet another Christian couple getting a divorce and the list goes on and on. Let's be honest Christians today are not concerned about sin because they believe that they are under grace and they can do whatever they want and God will just turn a blind eye. If God had a code of conduct for the Israelites to live by but does not for Christians then God changed and the Bible is false.

Jude 4New International Version (NIV)

⁴ For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

 No, Christians are not denying Jesus but they are definitely using grace as a license to sin.

[Guest Teditis]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 11:34 PM, inchrist said:

Got questions is in violation of Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it:you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

 

 

I wonder if Got Questions actually realise Christ wasnt adding anything or subtracting anything to all of the other commandments. 

 

If that is indeed what Christ was doing, then he was in violation of the Torah.

 

Christ was quoting from the Torah

 

Deuteronomy 6:5 And you shall love YHWH your Elohiym with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

 

Leviticus 19:18 You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbour as yourself: I am YHWH.

 

All the mosaic law hanged on these two mosaic laws.

 

 

 

 

False!!!!

 

Galatians 3:25 we have the schoolmaster which is the written Towrah in stone or in scrolls which kills our flesh because “the letter kills (2nd Corinthians 3:3-4).This is because our flesh must be crucified daily.

 

But once the written law (the schoolmaster) gets us safely to school, we have the Holy Spirit pir teacher who teaches us the same law.

 

Ephesians 2:15 

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

The Greek word for ordinances is the wors dogma....it is referring to man made doctrines. Ephesians is not speaking about the Mosaic Law its referring to Rabbinic doctrines man made doctrines.

 

It seems Got questions is also having issues with differentiating between Mosaic Law and Rabbinic Law

 

Romans 10:4

 

If Got questions read alittle further they would find Christ did not do away with the law

 

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”

 

The Law is in our mouths and in our hearts.

 

The foolishness of such statements, the dangers of such statements like this.....

 

 

 

 

...... Is the very reason why we have websites like the following:

 

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Christians-Under-Law.html

 

You can be a gay christian, you can be a bisexual christian, you can be a transgender christians becauss guess what we not under the old testiment laws....

 

 

And then our day and age christian community scratches its head why the world is in such decay.

 

You fail to take into account the fact that the Law was given to the Jewish people.... not to the Gentiles.

You also are building your dogma on the false premise that Christ didn't fulfill most of the Law, if not

all of it. Plus you discount so much Scripture in the NT that directly contradicts your opinions.

You just lack evidence from several standpoints that it would be utterly hysterical if it wasn't such a

serious issue. And your condescending attitude towards others who point out "truth" to you and give you

clear-cut Scripture, doesn't help your case any.  

[kwikphilly]

Blessings TruthSeeker

    I'm not sure which "Christians" you are getting or rather "not getting" answers from in regards to "sin".....that's a shame that anyone would regard Gods Grace as a "license to sin" & the confusion seems to always begin with the misunderstandings there are with the "LAW".....Firstly you have tom understand that most of us were not born Jews & were never under the Mosaic Law to begin with,when one is grafted in to Gods Family that does not make them Jewish,this is where I see many denominational doctrines go this way & that way (SDA) because suddenly they seem to think they must follow the Laws Written in the Torah,,,,,,,why would they think that,Jesus summed it up rather simply

Quote

King James Bible
If ye love me, keep my commandments.  John 14:15

Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)

³⁶ “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

³⁷ Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’^{[a] 38} This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹ And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’^{[b] 40} All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

Does what Jesus answered in any way tell us to follow nearly 700 commands?No,He is saying that because we love Him we will do what He is telling us to do,,,,,,,Love God,Love One another......with LOVE guiding you,that is the Love of Christ Jesus.....how can you sin against God or another human being,you won't....you certainly will be convicted of that if you did because of Holy Spirit Who Indwells......It is that LOVE that motivates us & prompts us to bear good fruits.......Holy Spirit leads us & guides us,,,,,,Jesus Abides in us & living Godly & Holy is a result of that,not the other way around

   The homosexual who says "I am a Christian" must have an aching heart as Holy Spirit is convicting him to become a New Creature or he had not Holy Spirit!!!!A person who is bound by the spirit of homosexuality can certainly be delivered ,but he must be repentant....if he is does not repent we need to wonder "Does he LOVE JESUS"...I would have to wonder....the 2 are not compatible(homosexual/Christian)so I see where you are coming from,surely I do & I agree

   The thing is to Understand that those (nearly 700 laws) were not written for anyone but Gods Chosen people,.the Jews.......not us & those Jews were very confused about "keeping the Law" themselves when they were FREED from the Law & Born Again ...New Creatures in Christ....FREE INDEED......I don't know how to explain it any simpler than I have,,,,,I sure do hope it helps                      With love-in Christ,Kwik

Remnantrob is a SDA,he explains it much better than I ,SDA are Sabbath Keepers & they do not eat pork,etc,,,,,I don't hold to what the SDA doctrine teaches but I do like the way remnantrob explained that it is not that by his efforts he keeps the Law but by the Power of the Holy Spirit ...I'll look for the THread,he says it beautifully

 

[Guest Teditis]

3 minutes ago, inchrist said:

But we are part of the common wealth if Israel

 

 

Says who? Commonwealth in which regards?

The NT speaks directly to the fact that there are Jews and then there are Gentiles... Gentiles need not live under any Mosaic Law.

We live with God's Law that's written on our hearts.

Anyway, if you like to live according to the Law, why aren't Sacrificing animals as prescribed in the OT?

Go ahead and do what you want.. we have the freedom to do so in Christ.

[Guest Teditis]

2 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Clearly just like this website

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Christians-Under-Law.html

They argue with just like you do against the law.

This is the fruits of this heresy you guys are presenting.

Here is prophecy against this heresy Jeremiah you guys present

Jeremiah 9: 13 And Yahuah (the Lord) said, “Because they have forsaken my Torah (Law) which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it,

14 but have walked according to the stubbornness of their own heart and after the Baals, which their fathers had taught them”,

15 therefore thus says Yahuah of Hosts, the Elohim of Israel, “See, I am making this people eat wormwood, and I shall make them drink poisoned water”.

 

It sounds like you've taken your dogma from the OT and thrown away the NT to include the works of Christ... that's a dangerous road.

As for what other people may say about going against God's Laws, it just isn't my concern... the arguments are not the same at all.

One group seeks to justify themselves before God and the other claims Jesus as their Justifier. You're using logic fallacies to support your position.

Since you seem stuck to your beliefs due to pride... I think I'll end this conversation.... you're stuck in a rut of not trusting in Jesus.