Russian Icons and Catholic Relics

[Guest BacKaran]

But, as my rcc friend said, that's not MY church doing any of that. I replied it is your church and it's all over the world doing this. Why would you want to be  a part of that or even remotely connected to that?

She just repeated, that's not my church.

And the Vatican has a finger of some pope and some blood of Jpaul 2 they display once a year...ick! Stephen King would be proud.... Or perhaps not!

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:20 PM, woundeddog said:

I was raised Lutheran as a kid and my Aunt gave me a metal Jesus on a cross- which hung in my childhood bedroom for years- when I got saved I knew that Jesus wasn't on the cross anymore so I got a screwdriver and pried him off and rehung the cross-----but I didnt know what to do with my metal Jesus so I pt him in my desk drawer------ after all I couldnt just throw Jesus away~~~~~~~ it took me a few more years to gain the spiritual maturity to know that it wasnt jesus- it was just a hunk of metal---- I threw it away

Amen. The cross by itself is not an idol but the ones with Jesus on them are.

I wear a silver cross myself, not to treat it as some kind of magic rock but merely as a reminder of what we did to Christ and what He was willing to endure for us anyway.

Relics, scapulars, or whatever, they are all pagan in origin. And thus have no place in the true Church

[Hoddie]

On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 4:20 PM, woundeddog said:

I was raised Lutheran as a kid and my Aunt gave me a metal Jesus on a cross- which hung in my childhood bedroom for years- when I got saved I knew that Jesus wasn't on the cross anymore

Interesting W.D, makes me wonder what your thoughts are on 1Cor.1:23 where Paul says, "...but we preach Christ crucified..." Do you wonder why Paul preach's Christ crucified? Doesn't he know Jesus has been raised from the dead?

so I got a screwdriver and pried him off and rehung the cross.

Hmmm... I don't know, or maybe it's just me, but this seems an odd thing for someone to do.

-----but I didnt know what to do with my metal Jesus so I pt him in my desk drawer------ after all I couldnt just throw Jesus away~~~~~~~ it took me a few more years to gain the spiritual maturity to know that it wasnt jesus- it was just a hunk of metal---- I threw it away

Did you tell your Aunt this is what you did to the gift she gave you?

　

Peace

[Hoddie]

For the Catholic Churches true teachings reguarding relics, and not some second hand, fallible opinions from one of the many anti-Catholic web-sites, I'll let Fr. William Saunders from EWTN explain it.

 

WHY DO WE VENERATE RELICS?

Father William Saunders

In the article about the beatification of Father Damien, I read that his "relics" were given to the bishop of Honolulu. Could you please explain this and give some history behind it?—A reader in Leesburg Relics include the physical remains of a saint (or of a person who is considered holy but not yet officially canonized) as well as other objects which have been "sanctified" by being touched to his body. These relics are divided into two classes. First class or real relics include the physical body parts, clothing and instruments connected with a martyr's imprisonment, torture and execution. Second class or representative relics are those which the faithful have touched to the physical body parts or grave of the saint. The use of relics has some, although limited, basis in sacred Scripture. In 2 Kings 2:9-14, the prophet Elisha picked up the mantle of Elijah after Elijah had been taken up to heaven in a whirlwind. With is, Elisha struck the water of the Jordan, which then parted so that he could cross. In another passage (13:20-21), some people hurriedly bury a dead man in the grave of Elisha, "but when the man came in contact with the bones of Elisha, he came back to life and rose to his feet." In the Acts of the Apostles we read, "Meanwhile, God worked extraordinary miracles at the hands of Paul. When handkerchiefs or cloths which had touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases were cured and evil spirits departed from them" (19:11-12). In these three passages, a reverence was given to the actual body or clothing of these very holy people who were indeed God's chosen instruments—Elijah, Elisha and St. Paul. Indeed, miracles were connected with these "relics"—not that some magical power existed in them, but just as God's work was done through the lives of these holy men, so did His work continue after their deaths. Likewise, just as people were drawn closer to God through the lives of these holy men, so did they (even if through their remains) inspire others to draw closer even after their deaths. This perspective provides the Church's understanding of relics. The veneration of relics of the saints is found in the early history of the Church. A letter written by the faithful of the Church in Smyrna in the year 156 provides an account of the death of St. Polycarp, their bishop, who was burned at the stake. The letter reads, "We took up the bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place, where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together as we are able, in gladness and joy, and celebrate the birthday of his martyrdom." Essentially, the relics—the bones and other remains of St. Polycarp—were buried and the tomb itself was the "reliquary." Other accounts attest that the faithful visited the burial places of the saints and miracles occurred. Moreover, at this time we see the development of "feast days" marking the death of the saint, the celebration of Mass at the burial place and a veneration of the remains. After the legalization of the Church in 312, the tombs of saints were opened and the actual relics were venerated by the faithful. A bone or other bodily part was placed in a reliquary—a box, locket and later a glass case—for veneration. This practice especially grew in the Eastern Church, while the practice of touching cloth to the remains of the saint was more common in the west. By the time of the Merovingian and Carolingian periods of the Middle Ages, the use of reliquaries was common throughout the whole Church. The Church strived to keep the use of relics in perspective. In his Letter to Riparius, St. Jerome (d. 420) wrote in defense of relics: "We do not worship, we do not adore, for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the Creator, but we venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore Him whose martyrs they are." Here we need to pause for a moment. Perhaps in our technological age, the whole idea of relics may seem strange. Remember, all of us treasure things that have belonged to someone we love—a piece of clothing, another personal item, a lock of hair. Those "relics" remind us of the love we share with that person while he was still living and even after death. Our hearts are torn when we think about disposing of the very personal things of a deceased loved one. Even from an historical sense, at Ford's Theater Museum for instance, we can see things that belonged to President Lincoln, including the blood-stained pillow on which he died. More importantly, we treasure the relics of saints, the holy instruments of God. During the Middle Ages, the "translation of relics," meaning the removal of relics from the tombs, their placement in reliquaries and their dispersal, grew. Sadly, abuses grew also. With various barbarian invasions, the conquests of the Crusades, the lack of means for verifying all relics and less than reputable individuals who in their greed preyed on the ignorant and the superstitious, abuses did occur. Even St. Augustine (d. 430) denounced impostors who dressed as monks selling spurious relics of saints. Pope St. Gregory (d. 604) forbade the selling of relics and the disruption of tombs in the catacombs. Unfortunately, the popes or other religious authorities were powerless in trying to control the translation of relics or prevent forgeries. Eventually, these abuses prompted the Protestant leaders to attack the idea of relics totally. Unfortunately, the abuses and the negative reaction surrounding relics has led many people to this day to be skeptical about relics. In response, the Council of Trent (1563) defended invoking the prayers of the saints and venerating their relics and burial places. "The sacred bodies of the holy martyrs and of the other saints living with Christ, which have been living members of Christ and the temple of the Holy Spirit and which are destined to be raised and glorified by Him unto life eternal, should also be venerated by the faithful. Through them, many benefits are granted to men by God." Since that time, the Church has taken stringent measures to ensure the proper preservation and veneration of relics. The <Code of Canon Law> (No. 1190) absolutely forbids the selling of sacred relics and they cannot be "validly alienated or perpetually transferred" without permission of the Holy See. Moreover, any relic today would have proper documentation attesting to its authenticity. The Code also supports the proper place for relics in our Catholic practice. Canon 1237 states, "The ancient tradition of keeping the relics of martyrs and other saints under a fixed altar is to be preserved according to the norms given in the liturgical books" (a practice widespread since the fourth century). Many churches also have relics of their patron saints which the faithful venerate upon appropriate occasions. And yes, reports of the Lord's miracles and favors continue to be connected with the intercession of a saint and the veneration of his relics. In all, relics remind us of the holiness of a saint and his cooperation in God's work. At the same time, relics inspire us to ask for the prayers of that saint and to beg the grace of God to live the same kind of faith-filled live.

 

[Hoddie]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Amen. The cross by itself is not an idol but the ones with Jesus on them are.

Really? We Catholics believe that because of Jesus we are saved, and not by a cross.

I wear a silver cross myself, not to treat it as some kind of magic rock but merely as a reminder of what we did to Christ and what He was willing to endure for us anyway.

Thats right! We Catholics believe that one cannot look at a crucifix without seeing Great Love. For, as Christ said, "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends." -John 15:13. Jesus loved us so much he endured all of that suffering for our sake! And that is what we are proclaiming when we display and venerate the crucifix. LOVE!

As the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen so beautifully put it: "Keep your eyes on the crucifix, for Jesus without the cross is a man without a mission, and the cross without Jesus is a burden without a reliever."

Relics, scapulars, or whatever, they are all pagan in origin.

Say's who? By who's or what authority is this determined?

And thus have no place in the true Church

And what is your belief of what the 'true church' is?

　

Peace

[HAZARD]

O'h no, Catholic people don't worship  Mary or relics, they just place their heads on them and maybe, take a nap. And they bow and pray before the box filled with the bony remains of claimed saint Theresa.

[woundeddog]

3 hours ago, Hoddie said:

Did you tell your Aunt this is what you did to the gift she gave you?

no Hodie-- unfortunately I couldn't== she had passed on and gone to hell--- I was sad

[Hoddie]

2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

O'h no, Catholic people don't worship  Mary or relics, they just place their heads on them and maybe, take a nap. And they bow and pray before the box filled with the bony remains of claimed saint Theresa.

How do you know whats in this womans mind or her heart while she is praying. Or in anyone elses for that matter.

[Hoddie]

41 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

no Hodie-- unfortunately I couldn't== she had passed on and gone to hell--- I was sad

How do you know she went to hell?

p.s. Again, maybe it's just me, but I find that an odd thing to say about a loved one.

 

Peace

[Hoddie]

1 hour ago, woundeddog said:

no Hodie-- unfortunately I couldn't== she had passed on and gone to hell--- I was sad

I noticed Woundeddog you didn't give your thoughts on 1Cor.1:23 where Paul says, "...but we preach Christ crucified..." Do you wonder why Paul preach's Christ crucified? Doesn't he know Jesus has been raised from the dead?

How come?

 

Peace