Catholicism and christianity

[kwikphilly]

Quote

Quit looking to man and self and cry out to God to deliver you... You must be born again to have The Resident Truth Teacher and you alone are responsible for yourself that of verification that The Holy Spirit is there within by yeliding to the Scripture alone!
*snip*
HOLY SPIRIT, THE TEACHER

Was promised. Prov 1:23.
As the Spirit of wisdom. Isa 11:2; 40:13-14.
He was given
In answer to prayer. Eph 1:16-17.
To the saints. Neh 9:20; 1 Cor 2:12-13.
He is needed for. 1 Cor 2:9-10.
As such he
Reveals the things of God.  1 Cor 10:13.
Reveals the things of Christ. John 16:14.
Brings the words of Christ to remembrance. John 14:26.
Directs us in the way of godliness. Isa 30:21; Ezek 36:27.
Teaches the saints how to answer their persecutors. Mark 13:11; Luke 12:12.
Enables ministers to teach. 1 Cor 12:8.
Guides into all truth. John 14:26; 16:13.
Attends to the instruction of. Rev 2:7,11,29.
The natural man will not receive the things of. 1 Cor 2:14.
 
(from The New Thematic Concordance, Copyright © Geoffrey Stonier 2004. All rights reserved.)
*snip*                        enoob

Amen Steven.......God Bless you Beloved Brother

Quote

Sure. All you have to do is carefully study the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) and compare it with the teaching of the Bible. Just a few of the glaring errors found in the CCC.

ERROR #1. Only the RCC is the one true church and is NECESSARY for salvation.

ERROR #2. Only the Magisterium of the RCC has the authority to interpret Scripture and is infallible.

ERROR #3. The Pope is the Head of the Church and the Vicar of Christ.

ERROR #4. Holy Tradition is equal to (or more equal than) Scripture.

ERROR #5. Salvation is by FAITH + WORKS, and grace can be merited.

ERROR #6. Water baptism and penance are NECESSARY for salvation.

ERROR #7. Mary is the Mediatrix, and prayers can be made to Mary and the saints.

ERROR #8. All good Catholics go to Purgatory for their final *purification*.

ERROR #9. Indulgences can help is shortening the time in Purgatory.

ERROR #10. The Mass is the actual sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ.

ERROR #11.  Sinful human priests can actually forgive the sins of others through absolution.

ERROR #12. Salvation is maintained by participation in the sacraments                                  Ezra

These(amongst others)are some of the problems I had to take a good hard look at after nearly 12 years of ignorance which I used to attribute to brainwashing-my own fault really,I own it).....God gave me every opportunity to search the Scriptures for myself & let HIM REVEAL them to me.......as Steven said,with complete sincerity......you have to quit looking to SELF & man with a teachable ,willing  heart.......it is Christ's Lordship that I needed to surrender to for the Holy Spirit to operate unhindered,the Word of God is clear,the unadulterated Word........

  At one time I believed it was necessary to search high & low for the earliest Hebrew & Greek texts I could find to discover Gods Truth...it isn't so,you do not have to be a scholar or a linguist or have any great academic knowledge for God to Reveal Himself.......His Word came through loud & clear even through the catholic bible when I earnestly sought Him & finally forsook SELF....      The Truth had been staring me right in the face all along,from the very beginning

                                                                                                                             With love=-in Christ,Kwik

[markdohle]

8 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Amen Steven.......God Bless you Beloved Brother

These(amongst others)are some of the problems I had to take a good hard look at after nearly 12 years of ignorance which I used to attribute to brainwashing-my own fault really,I own it).....God gave me every opportunity to search the Scriptures for myself & let HIM REVEAL them to me.......as Steven said,with complete sincerity......you have to quit looking to SELF & man with a teachable ,willing  heart.......it is Christ's Lordship that I needed to surrender to for the Holy Spirit to operate unhindered,the Word of God is clear,the unadulterated Word........

  At one time I believed it was necessary to search high & low for the earliest Hebrew & Greek texts I could find to discover Gods Truth...it isn't so,you do not have to be a scholar or a linguist or have any great academic knowledge for God to Reveal Himself.......His Word came through loud & clear even through the catholic bible when I earnestly sought Him & finally forsook SELF....      The Truth had been staring me right in the face all along,from the very beginning

                                                                                                                             With love=-in Christ,Kwik

 

Jesus said in John 6:53

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. 

Jesus lost many disciples over this saying, they left him because the saying was too hard for them.  This is why the Eucharist is central to not only Catholic worship but to all the older branches of Christianity.   "Born again-ism" started in the 19th century and has little connection with the traditions of Christianity.

As for the other sacraments, yes they are important for through them Christ does work in the world.  Baptism, Eucharist, Holy Orders, Confirmation and Holy Matrimony, the fact that 'Born Agains' don't take this seriously shows that you have cut yourself off from the living traditions of the Church.  The sacraments are not obstacles to Christ but avenues of grace shown through redeemed matter. 

The church is needed for without it, you get what is so common here in this site, each becomes the ultimate authority of the scriptures, each thinks that they are led by the Holy Spirit even though there is disagreement on central issues.  Salvation being one of them. 

 

Eucharist means thanksgiving, and the Eucharist is the "source and summit of the Christian life." St. Justin Martyr described the Eucharistic Liturgy in 155 AD in his First Apology. The Paschal mystery of Christ is celebrated in the liturgy of the Mass. The Mass (or Divine Liturgy in the East) is the Eucharist or principal sacramental celebration of the Church, established by Jesus at the Last Supper, in which the mystery of our salvation through participation in the sacrificial death and glorious resurrection of Christ is renewed and accomplished. The word "Mass" comes from the Latin missa, as it refers to the mission or sending forth of the faithful following the celebration, so that they may fulfill God's will in their daily lives.

Jesus died once on the cross in sacrifice for our sins (Hebrews 9:25-28). But Jesus is present for all time, as he is the eternal Son of God. What he did once in history also then exists for all eternity. What happened in time goes beyond time. In the heart of Jesus he is always giving himself to the Father for us, as he did on the Cross. When we celebrate the Mass, the sacrifice of the cross, that happened once in history but is present for all eternity, that same reality is made present in mystery.

The bread and wine through Transubstantiation become the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, and we receive the Real Presence of Jesus when we receive Holy Communion. Our soul is nourished, helping us to become like Christ. The Eucharist is the heart and source of community within the Church. Receiving Holy Communion with others during the Mass brings unity of the Church, the Body of Christ (I Corinthians 10:16-17).  I believe that 'born agains' miss out on a very important aspect of the Eucharist, the receiving of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[markdohle]

8 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Amen Steven.......God Bless you Beloved Brother

These(amongst others)are some of the problems I had to take a good hard look at after nearly 12 years of ignorance which I used to attribute to brainwashing-my own fault really,I own it).....God gave me every opportunity to search the Scriptures for myself & let HIM REVEAL them to me.......as Steven said,with complete sincerity......you have to quit looking to SELF & man with a teachable ,willing  heart.......it is Christ's Lordship that I needed to surrender to for the Holy Spirit to operate unhindered,the Word of God is clear,the unadulterated Word........

  At one time I believed it was necessary to search high & low for the earliest Hebrew & Greek texts I could find to discover Gods Truth...it isn't so,you do not have to be a scholar or a linguist or have any great academic knowledge for God to Reveal Himself.......His Word came through loud & clear even through the catholic bible when I earnestly sought Him & finally forsook SELF....      The Truth had been staring me right in the face all along,from the very beginning

                                                                                                                             With love=-in Christ,Kwik

 

Jesus said in John 6:53

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. 

Jesus lost many disciples over this saying, they left him because the saying was too hard for them.  This is why the Eucharist is central to not only Catholic worship but to all the older branches of Christianity.   "Born again-ism" started in the 19th century and has little connection with the traditions of Christianity.

As for the other sacraments, yes they are important for through them Christ does work in the world.  Baptism, Eucharist, Holy Orders, Confirmation and Holy Matrimony, the fact that 'Born Agains' don't take this seriously shows that you have cut yourself off from the living traditions of the Church.  The sacraments are not obstacles to Christ but avenues of grace shown through redeemed matter. 

The church is needed for without it, you get what is so common here in this site, each becomes the ultimate authority of the scriptures, each thinks that they are led by the Holy Spirit even though there is disagreement on central issues.  Salvation being one of them. 

 

Eucharist means thanksgiving, and the Eucharist is the "source and summit of the Christian life." St. Justin Martyr described the Eucharistic Liturgy in 155 AD in his First Apology. The Paschal mystery of Christ is celebrated in the liturgy of the Mass. The Mass (or Divine Liturgy in the East) is the Eucharist or principal sacramental celebration of the Church, established by Jesus at the Last Supper, in which the mystery of our salvation through participation in the sacrificial death and glorious resurrection of Christ is renewed and accomplished. The word "Mass" comes from the Latin missa, as it refers to the mission or sending forth of the faithful following the celebration, so that they may fulfill God's will in their daily lives.

Jesus died once on the cross in sacrifice for our sins (Hebrews 9:25-28). But Jesus is present for all time, as he is the eternal Son of God. What he did once in history also then exists for all eternity. What happened in time goes beyond time. In the heart of Jesus he is always giving himself to the Father for us, as he did on the Cross. When we celebrate the Mass, the sacrifice of the cross, that happened once in history but is present for all eternity, that same reality is made present in mystery.

The bread and wine through Transubstantiation become the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, and we receive the Real Presence of Jesus when we receive Holy Communion. Our soul is nourished, helping us to become like Christ. The Eucharist is the heart and source of community within the Church. Receiving Holy Communion with others during the Mass brings unity of the Church, the Body of Christ (I Corinthians 10:16-17).  I believe that 'born agains' miss out on a very important aspect of the Eucharist, the receiving of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[enoob57]

56 minutes ago, markdohle said:

 

Jesus said in John 6:53

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. 

Jesus lost many disciples over this saying, they left him because the saying was too hard for them.  This is why the Eucharist is central to not only Catholic worship but to all the older branches of Christianity.   "Born again-ism" started in the 19th century and has little connection with the traditions of Christianity.

As for the other sacraments, yes they are important for through them Christ does work in the world.  Baptism, Eucharist, Holy Orders, Confirmation and Holy Matrimony, the fact that 'Born Agains' don't take this seriously shows that you have cut yourself off from the living traditions of the Church.  The sacraments are not obstacles to Christ but avenues of grace shown through redeemed matter. 

The church is needed for without it, you get what is so common here in this site, each becomes the ultimate authority of the scriptures, each thinks that they are led by the Holy Spirit even though there is disagreement on central issues.  Salvation being one of them. 

 

Eucharist means thanksgiving, and the Eucharist is the "source and summit of the Christian life." St. Justin Martyr described the Eucharistic Liturgy in 155 AD in his First Apology. The Paschal mystery of Christ is celebrated in the liturgy of the Mass. The Mass (or Divine Liturgy in the East) is the Eucharist or principal sacramental celebration of the Church, established by Jesus at the Last Supper, in which the mystery of our salvation through participation in the sacrificial death and glorious resurrection of Christ is renewed and accomplished. The word "Mass" comes from the Latin missa, as it refers to the mission or sending forth of the faithful following the celebration, so that they may fulfill God's will in their daily lives.

Jesus died once on the cross in sacrifice for our sins (Hebrews 9:25-28). But Jesus is present for all time, as he is the eternal Son of God. What he did once in history also then exists for all eternity. What happened in time goes beyond time. In the heart of Jesus he is always giving himself to the Father for us, as he did on the Cross. When we celebrate the Mass, the sacrifice of the cross, that happened once in history but is present for all eternity, that same reality is made present in mystery.

The bread and wine through Transubstantiation become the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, and we receive the Real Presence of Jesus when we receive Holy Communion. Our soul is nourished, helping us to become like Christ. The Eucharist is the heart and source of community within the Church. Receiving Holy Communion with others during the Mass brings unity of the Church, the Body of Christ (I Corinthians 10:16-17).  I believe that 'born agains' miss out on a very important aspect of the Eucharist, the receiving of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

 

The straight out problem with this undertanding is that it is of flesh not of Spirit ... I have said this many times things of the spirit are spirit and things of the flesh are flesh and the RCC didn't get it right out of the box! The purpose of communion is to meditate upon the spiritual life The Son brought us through regeneration by His Death Burial and Resurrection (the Gospel) as often as you do this do it in rememberance of Me... Peter answered it best by what manner of people should we be seeing all this is going to passaway and the Life we will have does not now yet appear as to how it will be!  Love, Steven

[markdohle]

4 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

The straight out problem with this undertanding is that it is of flesh not of Spirit ... I have said this many times things of the spirit are spirit and things of the flesh are flesh and the RCC didn't get it right out of the box! The purpose of communion is to meditate upon the spiritual life The Son brought us through regeneration by His Death Burial and Resurrection (the Gospel) as often as you do this do it in rememberance of Me... Peter answered it best by what manner of people should we be seeing all this is going to passaway and the Life we will have does not now yet appear as to how it will be!  Love, Steven

Actually I believe that the harsh judging that goes on about the RCC is from the flesh.  It is as common as mud how people (myself included) judge those harshly who believe and worship differently.  Your opinion on how the RCC got it wrong, is just that an opinion.  Many non-Catholics after they do a through study of the Church becomes Catholics, that includes ministers and regular people.  So they disagree with you.  Scott Hahn is one of the most famous.  A fundamentalist Calvinist who studied the church to prove it wrong and evil, yet got converted after seeking the historical development of the Christian faith.

Thanks for responding ;-).

Peace
Mark

[Ezra]

9 minutes ago, markdohle said:

It is as common as mud how people (myself included) judge those harshly who believe and worship differently.

Mark,

We should always keep a clear distinction between judging false doctrine (which is a necessity) and judging those who may be following in that direction (which is not for us to judge).  

So it is not Roman Catholics who are being judged, but what their hierarchy has presented in their own Catechism (which even Roman Catholics should have compared with Scripture). The same applies to JWs, Mormons, etc. All wonderful people, but ensnared in false teachings.

[markdohle]

10 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Mark,

We should always keep a clear distinction between judging false doctrine (which is a necessity) and judging those who may be following in that direction (which is not for us to judge).  

So it is not Roman Catholics who are being judged, but what their hierarchy has presented in their own Catechism (which even Roman Catholics should have compared with Scripture). The same applies to JWs, Mormons, etc. All wonderful people, but ensnared in false teachings.

I do understand, but like I have said, that is an opinion.  I don't feel judged by you, you are a kind man, just speaking your mind.  This is after all a non-catholic site ;-).....I am the alien here so to speak.  Though I have been told I and all Catholics are going to hell....so I guess I am being judged by some, but not by you.

Peace
mark

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Mark

   I'm not sure why you addressed me by quoting my comment (5 posts before this one)and going on to explain the sacraments & other customs & traditions upheld by the rcc    I do not need any lessons on or definitions of the practices of catholicism ,what they hold to be "Sacred" & so it is not necessary plus we do not permit the teaching or promoting of any doctrines outside of Gods Word(as described in our Statement of Faith)so I hope you have not simply taken my comment as an opportunity to do

   What I was trying to express ,with great expectations, is that no one can limit the Power in Gods Living Word in spite of all man (or organized churches & denominations) will add to it or try to distract anyone from it,,,,,,& as I mentioned,even in a catholic Bible......catholic Bibles include many commentaries,a missile,liturgy of "the mass" & also their 7 sacraments......still,if not distracted by these additions....there lies Gods Word somewhere in the middle ,the Holy Scriptures!!!!!! So ,I'll give it another go....

Quote

On 11/16/2016 at 8:34 AM, kwikphilly said:

Amen Steven.......God Bless you Beloved Brother

These(amongst others)are some of the problems I had to take a good hard look at after nearly 12 years of ignorance which I used to attribute to brainwashing-my own fault really,I own it).....God gave me every opportunity to search the Scriptures for myself & let HIM REVEAL them to me.......as Steven said,with complete sincerity......you have to quit looking to SELF & man with a teachable ,willing  heart.......it is Christ's Lordship that I needed to surrender to for the Holy Spirit to operate unhindered,the Word of God is clear,the unadulterated Word........

  At one time I believed it was necessary to search high & low for the earliest Hebrew & Greek texts I could find to discover Gods Truth...it isn't so,you do not have to be a scholar or a linguist or have any great academic knowledge for God to Reveal Himself.......His Word came through loud & clear even through the catholic bible when I earnestly sought Him & finally forsook SELF....      The Truth had been staring me right in the face all along,from the very beginning

                                                                                                                             With love=-in Christ,Kwik

Speaking of the Body of Christ,or as Gods Word refers to US as those who are made ALIVE,Reborn,Born Again     Which is totally SCRIPTURE & not an interpretation by any one,any church etc,,,,,it is the what GOD SAYS,I'm quite surprised to hear you say.....

Quote

I believe that 'born agains' miss out on a very important aspect of the Eucharist, the receiving of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

Are you not "ALIVE" in Christ,"Born Again?"

Quote

 

 

John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 1:23 - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John 3:1-8 - There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:   (Read More...)

John 3:1-7 - There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:   (Read More...)

Romans 6:4 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:   (Read More...)

Romans 6:6 - Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.   (Read More...)

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 - And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

1 Corinthians 3:8 - Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Ephesians 2:5-6 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)   (Read More...)

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I did not highlight everything or give ALL the Scripture verses on being "Born Again",I do hope these suffice! One of my favorites is...

Quote

^Ephesians4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, ⁵ made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

                                                You should not think yourself "the alien" here,there is no difference even between Jew & Gentile,Bondservant or otherwise in the Body of Christ........that is the Word of God says.....we do not alienate any Brother or Sister

Quote

King James Bible
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.       Col 3:11

                                                                                                                                                                       With love-in Christ,Kwik

[markdohle]

6 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Mark

   I'm not sure why you addressed me by quoting my comment (5 posts before this one)and going on to explain the sacraments & other customs & traditions upheld by the rcc    I do not need any lessons on or definitions of the practices of catholicism ,what they hold to be "Sacred" & so it is not necessary plus we do not permit the teaching or promoting of any doctrines outside of Gods Word(as described in our Statement of Faith)so I hope you have not simply taken my comment as an opportunity to do

   What I was trying to express ,with great expectations, is that no one can limit the Power in Gods Living Word in spite of all man (or organized churches & denominations) will add to it or try to distract anyone from it,,,,,,& as I mentioned,even in a catholic Bible......catholic Bibles include many commentaries,a missile,liturgy of "the mass" & also their 7 sacraments......still,if not distracted by these additions....there lies Gods Word somewhere in the middle ,the Holy Scriptures!!!!!! So ,I'll give it another go....

Speaking of the Body of Christ,or as Gods Word refers to US as those who are made ALIVE,Reborn,Born Again     Which is totally SCRIPTURE & not an interpretation by any one,any church etc,,,,,it is the what GOD SAYS,I'm quite surprised to hear you say.....

Are you not "ALIVE" in Christ,"Born Again?"

I did not highlight everything or give ALL the Scripture verses on being "Born Again",I do hope these suffice! One of my favorites is...

                                                You should not think yourself "the alien" here,there is no difference even between Jew & Gentile,Bondservant or otherwise in the Body of Christ........that is the Word of God says.....we do not alienate any Brother or Sister

                                                                                                                                                                       With love-in Christ,Kwik

Thank you for taking so much time in responding.  I read and am thankful for you clarity.  One thing, the Catholic bible does not have the Mass in it, unless it is a Missal.   Also I will be careful about sharing specifics about my faith.  Bible only got it ;-).

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Mark

  Your quite welcome  & it has always been a pleasure..............God Bless you,Peace,Love & Grace in our Lord Christ Jesus,Kwik