Hermanuetics Basics

[enoob57]

15 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Steven.

Okay, but just for the record, I don't believe in a static, "they lived happily ever after," existence in the Eternal State. I believe in a DYNAMIC eternal God; therefore, I believe in a DYNAMIC eternity!

 

I believe in a literal interpretation of Revelation 20 on to the great seal of God's Word... 

[Retrobyter]

1 minute ago, enoob57 said:

I believe in a literal interpretation of Revelation 20 on to the great seal of God's Word... 

Shalom, again, Steven.

Okay, so what does that mean to you?

[enoob57]

a literal interpretation!

[Retrobyter]

53 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

a literal interpretation!

Shalom, Steven.

That's good. So, you believe in a literal new earth with its literal new sky, a literal New Jerusalem (Yerushalayim haChadashah) built from literal jasper (bloodstone, not diamond), literal sapphire, literal chalcedony, literal emerald, literal sardonyx, literal sard, literal chrysolite, literal beryl, literal topaz, literal chrysoprase, literal jacinth, literal amethyst, and literal gold, right? That this city will contain a literal river of life-sustaining water, a literal park of trees, predominantly featuring the tree of life species, and the throne of God and of the Lamb, Yeshua`, right? That it will not be until then that all tears are wiped away, and there will be no more pain, sorrow, sickness, or death, right? That the kings of the earth will bring their glory into the city through gates of pearl forever standing open, right?

Just feeling out that we're on the same page here, that's all.

[Willa]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Steven.

Yes, getting back to the topic, thank you for these diagrams. I've often thought that I would LOVE a diagrammed Bible, in which EVERY English sentence of Scripture was so diagrammed. The problem is, however, that I would like to see such a thing for the original languages rather than English, too. We are still at the whim of the translator. Have you encountered such a work in any of the languages?

I still believe that you are on the right track, though! We NEED such things to better understand what the authors meant when they wrote what they wrote and to understand what the Author meant through the writings of those authors.

Regarding the usage of the NKJV, I find it ironic that ONE "improvement" that it made over the KJV was to lose the CASE and NUMBER of the second person!

I would have had no objection to them using you all and  just you or some such. In NKJV  But the archaic language of KJV is a such a stumbling block to me that I can't see the forrest for the trees.   No comprehension of the sentence. My comprehension is poor to begin with so I must repeat and re read a lot.

Outlining does help. (Our pastor even outlines a book before he teaches it.)

And analyzing the grammar helps.  So often in a Bible study someone has totally missed the meaning of the sentence because they didn't recognize the subject.  

Context is also very important.  The Jeremiah verse is much like Romans 8:38 plus Hebrews 12.  God can bring good out of our circumstances for those who love Him.  He chastens those He loves to bring about righteousness.  But most people read it out of context and don't realize it is about blessings produced by chastening. 

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Steven.

That's good. So, you believe in a literal new earth with its literal new sky, a literal New Jerusalem (Yerushalayim haChadashah) built from literal jasper (bloodstone, not diamond), literal sapphire, literal chalcedony, literal emerald, literal sardonyx, literal sard, literal chrysolite, literal beryl, literal topaz, literal chrysoprase, literal jacinth, literal amethyst, and literal gold, right? That this city will contain a literal river of life-sustaining water, a literal park of trees, predominantly featuring the tree of life species, and the throne of God and of the Lamb, Yeshua`, right? That it will not be until then that all tears are wiped away, and there will be no more pain, sorrow, sickness, or death, right? That the kings of the earth will bring their glory into the city through gates of pearl forever standing open, right?

Just feeling out that we're on the same page here, that's all.

We have to take in the whole council of God in this... those things John spoke of were his best 1st born explanatives, yet we know that God in His Word says this

1 Corinthians 2:9 (NKJV)

[9] But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,

Nor have entered into the heart of man

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

[10] But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

As I know God's Word contains the n^th degree of fulfillment thus what I read in Revelation cannot be the fulness of what is there because this is true also here... therefore the literal of Revelation and literal of 1Cor. leaves me waiting upon God to bring the fulness of both to my being...

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Willa said:

I would have had no objection to them using you all and  just you or some such. In NKJV  But the archaic language of KJV is a such a stumbling block to me that I can't see the forrest for the trees.   No comprehension of the sentence. My comprehension is poor to begin with so I must repeat and re read a lot.

Outlining does help. (Our pastor even outlines a book before he teaches it.)

And analyzing the grammar helps.  So often in a Bible study someone has totally missed the meaning of the sentence because they didn't recognize the subject.  

Context is also very important.  The Jeremiah verse is much like Romans 8:38 plus Hebrews 12.  God can bring good out of our circumstances for those who love Him.  He chastens those He loves to bring about righteousness.  But most people read it out of context and don't realize it is about blessings produced by chastening. 

Shalom, Willa.

Well, I have to admit that, as a PK (a preacher's kid), I was brought up on the English of the KJV; so, I do have a slight advantage. I say a "slight advantage," because no one I knew understood why some verses used "thee" or "thou" while others used "ye" or "you." I did know, however, that "thou" took the verb "shalt" while "ye" took the verb "shall."

However, I've heard and believe that the best translation for you is the one that you can and WILL read.If that's the NKJV, the NIV, the NASB, the HCSB, or the CJB, if you can read it, it makes sense to you, and you will therefore continue to read it, then it's the right Bible for you. Just be sure to check the Greek from time to time (you can use BibleHub.com, for instance) to make sure that the text is correctly interpreted and translated.

May God RICHLY bless your reading and your study!

[Willa]

Thanks so much Retro.  Your concern means a lot to me.  NKJV is the version I currently use the most, and is my go to Thompson's Chain Reference.  On E-Sword I have Amplified, which was the first New Testament I bought in 1958.   ESV is free on E-Sword.  The WEB version is available as well and is based on Byzantine, ASV and Young's are available to consult.  I have a hard copy of the ALT3 as well and recommend it.  The Byzantine text is my text of choice.  ASV wouldn't be bad but for the thees and thous which still are hard for my dyslexia to process on top of reversals and the inability of my eyes to track across a page.  (I would never pass a road test for intoxication lol.)  

[Retrobyter]

18 hours ago, Willa said:

Thanks so much Retro.  Your concern means a lot to me.  NKJV is the version I currently use the most, and is my go to Thompson's Chain Reference.  On E-Sword I have Amplified, which was the first New Testament I bought in 1958.   ESV is free on E-Sword.  The WEB version is available as well and is based on Byzantine, ASV and Young's are available to consult.  I have a hard copy of the ALT3 as well and recommend it.  The Byzantine text is my text of choice.  ASV wouldn't be bad but for the thees and thous which still are hard for my dyslexia to process on top of reversals and the inability of my eyes to track across a page.  (I would never pass a road test for intoxication lol.)  

Shalom, Willa.

You're quite welcome. Regarding the ASV, remember: the "thee's" and "thou's" are singular. The "ye's" and "you's" are plural. You might want to be careful with Young's translation. He was taught Hebrew by non-believing Jews, and I believe that he was misled about some of the tenses in his translation. It was either for that reason or for the reason that he misunderstood the translation process of Hebrew to English, for he often used the present tense where we would use a past tense to relate a historical account. To me, THAT is VERY confusing!

I'm right-handed, but I think I could have been trained to be ambidextrous. I, too, have a bit of dyslexia, and used to right forward and backward, and with either hand, for fun. In fact, being a bit of a nerd, I used to write my notes to my friends completely backward in cursive as a code. They could read what I wrote in a mirror with no problem.

I've even tried to write Hebrew with my right hand and English with my left at the same time, just to see if I could. After all, I used to write cursive with both hands at the same time with mirror strokes. So, actually, instead of being "right-handed," it's better to say that I "favor my right hand." My daughter is the same way. She could have read my "coded" notes WITHOUT a mirror.

When writing Hebrew, I tend to use a style of book-lettering for the Hebrew letters. I never quite got the hang of the cursive Hebrew letters. My daughter, Abigail (or Avigayil, my "source of joy"), is better at that.

[Willa]

18 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Willa.

You're quite welcome. Regarding the ASV, remember: the "thee's" and "thou's" are singular. The "ye's" and "you's" are plural. You might want to be careful with Young's translation. He was taught Hebrew by non-believing Jews, and I believe that he was misled about some of the tenses in his translation. It was either for that reason or for the reason that he misunderstood the translation process of Hebrew to English, for he often used the present tense where we would use a past tense to relate a historical account. To me, THAT is VERY confusing!

I'm right-handed, but I think I could have been trained to be ambidextrous. I, too, have a bit of dyslexia, and used to right forward and backward, and with either hand, for fun. In fact, being a bit of a nerd, I used to write my notes to my friends completely backward in cursive as a code. They could read what I wrote in a mirror with no problem.

I've even tried to write Hebrew with my right hand and English with my left at the same time, just to see if I could. After all, I used to write cursive with both hands at the same time with mirror strokes. So, actually, instead of being "right-handed," it's better to say that I "favor my right hand." My daughter is the same way. She could have read my "coded" notes WITHOUT a mirror.

When writing Hebrew, I tend to use a style of book-lettering for the Hebrew letters. I never quite got the hang of the cursive Hebrew letters. My daughter, Abigail (or Avigayil, my "source of joy"), is better at that.

I read phoeneticly and spell phoeneticly  so I can't spell either.  But I use Young's and ASV as references, not as go to which is NKJV.  Checking other translations helps me get a better grasp on the breadth of the meaning and usage of words.  So I also use Zodiahtes Greek Expository Dictionary and use Vine's a lot as well.  No Hebrew --it is a mystery to me since I can't begin to pronounce most words and I must read phoeneticly-- and my intro to Greek barely touched the surface.  My memory of classical Latin 60 years ago is fading fast.   

I can read backwards better than upside down lol.  A cousin was ambidextrous (she was straight A's at UCLA) and dyslexia runs in the family.  I admire anyone who can speak Hebrew.  It sounds like Russian to me.  We had a couple of Messianic Sadars at our church and I really tried to wrap my tongue around the Hebrew words but it was pretty comical.  However, it gave me such appreciation and understanding of the roots of our Lord's Supper.  The church is so much more grounded in Hebrew Old Testament tradition and culture than most of us realize.  Most Catholics seem to think that Peter was a Roman pope instead of a Hebrew fisherman who observed Hebrew holidays.  

Appreciate your contributions

Willa