Are We In Year One Of The Final Week?

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Then I must say, you believe the rapture will come before the 70th week.

I don't believe there is a rapture then a 7 year tribulation. When Christ returns and removes us, the wrath on the wicked will happen immediately.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, JaniceR said:

I don't believe there is a rapture then a 7 year tribulation. When Christ returns and removes us, the wrath on the wicked will happen immediately.

I have a silly question: why don't you follow the Chronology laid out for us in Revelation?  John wrote that the "Day of his Wrath" will start at the 6th seal. That is 13 chapters from chapter 19 when Jesus returns in power. Then the vials of His wrath will come in the second half of the week, again before Jesus returns. Therefore, I did not understand your theory at all.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I have a silly question: why don't you follow the Chronology laid out for us in Revelation?  John wrote that the "Day of his Wrath" will start at the 6th seal. That is 13 chapters from chapter 19 when Jesus returns in power. Then the vials of His wrath will come in the second half of the week, again before Jesus returns. Therefore, I did not understand your theory at all.

The Book of Revelation was written by John at a time of terrible prosecution of Israel by the Roman government. Revelation is written as an encouragement, to give hope to those oppressed. It shows the endgame..New Heaven and New Earth. Most of the writing is symbolic, using terms that the Jews of that time and place would understand.

Christs words tell us what is to come. He did not teach a pre-trib rapture. By his words we know that if we are alive, there is tribulation. 

[iamlamad]

19 hours ago, JaniceR said:

The Book of Revelation was written by John at a time of terrible prosecution of Israel by the Roman government. Revelation is written as an encouragement, to give hope to those oppressed. It shows the endgame..New Heaven and New Earth. Most of the writing is symbolic, using terms that the Jews of that time and place would understand.

Christs words tell us what is to come. He did not teach a pre-trib rapture. By his words we know that if we are alive, there is tribulation. 

Sorry, but Revelation is meant to be READ! It is the only book that offers a blessing just for reading it. More yet, it is meant to be UNDERSTOOD! In fact, most of it can be taken literally.

You are right; Jesus did not teach ANY KIND of rapture. Why? Jesus was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. ONLY PAUL got the revelation of the rapture, years after Jesus went back to heaven. No wise Christian would expect to find the rapture in Jesus sayings. The rapture is for the CHURCH; Jesus spoke to the Jews.  This is :rightly dividing" the Word.

The book of Revelation starts in John's day. He sent His book to seven churches (all Jewish churches) that existed in John's day. Then John was called up into heaven to see things in the future. From the 6th seal on in Revelation is end times and even future to us today. Trust me, God would not have bothered to write it, if He did not wish for us to read and understand it.  Don't sell yourself short: YOU can understand most of it.

Jesus  TOLD us we would have tribulation. But He certainly did not mean the church would have to survive the days of Great tribulation that He spoke of. In fact, He has given all a way to escape: can you believe what is written?

Luke 21: ³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

You can ignore this verse, and if you desire, suffer the days of GT and end up losing your head. But I ask you WHY? Why suffer and lose your head when God has planned a way for you to escape?

[OneLight]

14 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Luke 21: ³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

You can ignore this verse, and if you desire, suffer the days of GT and end up losing your head. But I ask you WHY? Why suffer and lose your head when God has planned a way for you to escape?

The rapture is not an escape as some put it, but rather a gathering to Him at His time.  I am not a pre tribulation believer, but I do believe that if I have to live through any part of the tribulation, God will protect me as He protected His people in the past: Noah and his family, Moses and the Hebrew nation, Lot and his family,etc.  God saw them through these times.  He did not take them off the earth so they would not have to go through anything.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

The rapture is not an escape as some put it, but rather a gathering to Him at His time.  I am not a pre tribulation believer, but I do believe that if I have to live through any part of the tribulation, God will protect me as He protected His people in the past: Noah and his family, Moses and the Hebrew nation, Lot and his family,etc.  God saw them through these times.  He did not take them off the earth so they would not have to go through anything.

Sorry, but the days of great tribulation will not be like any time before: it is the end of the age as we have known it. Worldwide judgment is coming. God is going to leave dead people around the world. But concerning believers, there are only two verses you have have real true bible faith in. They are the two verses that tells you the Beast will be given authority over you. This is a direct contradiction to many who think God will protect them.  Being protected and being given over to the authority of the Beast is two different things.

Dan 7:²¹ I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Rev. 13:⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

If any believer has faith in these verses, then they will have faith that they will be overcome, and lose their head.

It is NOT HIS PLAN that believers suffer through this: the pretrib rapture IS an escape.

Isaiah 26:

¹⁹ Thy dead men shall live, [dead in Christ rising] together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. [the rapture of the church]

²¹ For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. [the Day of the Lord and Jacob's trouble.]

Those raptured will be hidden, as it were, in heaven. And they will most certainly escape the days of GT that are coming.

[OneLight]

12 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but the days of great tribulation will not be like any time before: it is the end of the age as we have known it. Worldwide judgment is coming. God is going to leave dead people around the world. But concerning believers, there are only two verses you have have real true bible faith in. They are the two verses that tells you the Beast will be given authority over you. This is a direct contradiction to many who think God will protect them.  Being protected and being given over to the authority of the Beast is two different things.

Dan 7:²¹ I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Rev. 13:⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

If any believer has faith in these verses, then they will have faith that they will be overcome, and lose their head.

It is NOT HIS PLAN that believers suffer through this: the pretrib rapture IS an escape.

Isaiah 26:

¹⁹ Thy dead men shall live, [dead in Christ rising] together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

²⁰ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. [the rapture of the church]

²¹ For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. [the Day of the Lord and Jacob's trouble.]

Those raptured will be hidden, as it were, in heaven. And they will most certainly escape the days of GT that are coming.

Times may change, but God does not.  Until He takes me home, I have full faith that He will protect me as a Father does a child with more love and care any earthly parent could ever understand.  The timing of the rapture is at the last trump, not before, nor after.  Every theology outside of this scripture is just peoples "best guess".  I do worry for those who think they will be taken before the tribulation begins as I feel they will doubt their salvation, or at least their understanding of scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:50-58

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.  Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Times may change, but God does not.  Until He takes me home, I have full faith that He will protect me as a Father does a child with more love and care any earthly parent could ever understand.  The timing of the rapture is at the last trump, not before, nor after.  Every theology outside of this scripture is just peoples "best guess".  I do worry for those who think they will be taken before the tribulation begins as I feel they will doubt their salvation, or at least their understanding of scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:50-58

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.  Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

You certainly have the right to believe anything that is against a good exegesis if scripture.

And certainly Jesus will come for us "at the last trump." What you don't know is that the last trump will come PRETRIB.

The world will be living in peace and safety - a day like today - and SUDDENLY the dead in Christ rise. That event will act as the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord - which starts with the great earthquake at the 6th seal.

You do understand, don't you, that the 6th seal is in chapter 6, while Jesus coming in power on the white horse in in chapter 19? That will be over 7 years of time that takes place.

But you just go ahead and believe what you want - against scripture.  I will stick to what is written: The Beast will be given authority over the saints.   I did not say it, GOD SAID IT. The question is, why don't you believe it?

[OneLight]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You certainly have the right to believe anything that is against a good exegesis if scripture.

And certainly Jesus will come for us "at the last trump." What you don't know is that the last trump will come PRETRIB.

The world will be living in peace and safety - a day like today - and SUDDENLY the dead in Christ rise. That event will act as the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord - which starts with the great earthquake at the 6th seal.

You do understand, don't you, that the 6th seal is in chapter 6, while Jesus coming in power on the white horse in in chapter 19? That will be over 7 years of time that takes place.

But you just go ahead and believe what you want - against scripture.  I will stick to what is written: The Beast will be given authority over the saints.   I did not say it, GOD SAID IT. The question is, why don't you believe it?

I have a hard time understanding when anyone disagrees with the another persons interpretation of prophesy the one disagreeing does not have good exegesis of scripture, is a false teacher, heretic or any other form of an attack.  Usually that shows a weak stance of the attacker.

As for when the last trump will be, scripture does not say, so to make a statement of when is just a persons best guess. 

Also, claiming that the world will be living in peace and safety is an overstatement as it will appear to the people of Israel that finally there is some peace and safety due to the covenant spoken about in Daniel 9:27.  Daniel is not speaking of the world.

Yes, the sixth seal is in Revelation 6, and Revelation 19 does speak of His return, but there is no time table set that the beginning of the Tribulation begins at the opening of the 6th Seal.  I believe it will be at the beginning of the covenant made with Israel.

Again, your weakness shows in your personal attacks.  If you would just stop trying to set a timeline for the rapture by disregarding with the idea that nobody knows when the rapture will be, you may find that we may agree more than you think.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

I have a hard time understanding when anyone disagrees with the another persons interpretation of prophesy the one disagreeing does not have good exegesis of scripture, is a false teacher, heretic or any other form of an attack.  Usually that shows a weak stance of the attacker.

As for when the last trump will be, scripture does not say, so to make a statement of when is just a persons best guess. 

Also, claiming that the world will be living in peace and safety is an overstatement as it will appear to the people of Israel that finally there is some peace and safety due to the covenant spoken about in Daniel 9:27.  Daniel is not speaking of the world.

Yes, the sixth seal is in Revelation 6, and Revelation 19 does speak of His return, but there is no time table set that the beginning of the Tribulation begins at the opening of the 6th Seal.  I believe it will be at the beginning of the covenant made with Israel.

Again, your weakness shows in your personal attacks.  If you would just stop trying to set a timeline for the rapture by disregarding with the idea that nobody knows when the rapture will be, you may find that we may agree more than you think.

When one understands 1 Thes. 5, where Paul TELLS US when the rapture will be, in relation to other events, it is not guessing, it is understanding.

When John writes, "the day of His wrath has come," why don't you believe him? There is proof that the wrath of God begins right there. You see, each trumpet judgment that follows fits perfectly with Old Testament scriptures about the Day of the Lord.  God systematically begins destroying this world and the sinners in the world. That, my friend, is what the Day of the Lord is all about.

"disregarding with the idea that nobody knows when the rapture will be..."

It is the "day" and the "hour" that no one knows. Why ever said we cannot know when the rapture comes in relation to the Day of the Lord, for example, or the 70th week for another example? The truth is, we CAN know these things. They are written. 

"peace and safety"

Did you not understand Paul? 

1 Thessalonians 5:3

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

Perhaps you don't understand Paul's timing in this passage.

 

Make no mistake here; there is a SUDDENLY coming: a sudden event at a time of peace and safety. That sudden event will be the dead in Christ rising. Of course you know, a moment later, those alive and in Christ will rise also. But at this sudden event, the dead in Christ and those alive in Christ meeting in the air, Paul teaches us that two groups of people get two different results: Those living in the light of the gospel (In Christ) get "salvation" by being raptured, and get to "live together with Him." (So shall we ever be with the Lord.)

 

on the other hand, those living in the darkness get "sudden destruction." What is that? When the dead in Christ rise, that will cause a world wide earthquake. That earthquake (the very same as the 6th seal) will be Paul's "sudden destruction." Paul then ties this sudden destruction to the start of God's wrath and to the Day of the Lord. The rapture event then, will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord.

 

Always remember, the trigger is pulled before the bullet leaves the barrel. So the rapture takes place and then the Day of the Lord comes. That is Paul's order. That, by the way, is pretrib.

 

It could be that the "peace and safety" comes by the covenant made with many. God does not make that clear.

 

Just so you know, the 70th week of Daniel begins that the 7th seal, and ends at the 7th vial, with the midpoint marked by the 7th trumpet. The rapture, not seen by John, will take place between the 5th and 6th seal, but only a moment before the 6th seal. John then saw the raptured church in heaven shortly thereafter; the large crowd, too large to number.

 

I doubt if you will believe any of this, for the power of preconception is just too much for most to overcome.  That is OK. People will find out the truth when it comes to pass. Make no mistake, it will come to pass just as John has laid it out.