"All Believers Taken" In The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a False Teaching!

[Marcus O'Reillius]

21 hours ago, Keras said:

the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath, of fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:26

Where does he get such a silly idea?

Isaiah 30:26 The light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven days, on the day the Lord binds up the fracture of His people and heals the bruise He has inflicted.

Expositor's Bible Commentary on Isaiah 30:26.  (It's not a coronal mass ejection of the sun.)  Now his powers will secure healing where once he had smitten them in wrath (cf. also 40:2).

Hosea 6:1-2 Come, let us return to the Lord.
For He has torn us, but He will heal us;
He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.
He will revive us after two days;
He will raise us up on the third day,
That we may live before Him.

For two thousand years, God has ignored the Jews.  In the end-times, they will suffer the time of "Jacob's Trouble." 
For the third thousand year period since Christ though, the Jews will live with the Messiah King whom they had rejected when He was but a Servant Messiah.

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Where does he get such a silly idea?

I get it from Bible prophecy. Something you don't seem to want to know about.

Verses that can be explained literally by a Coronal Mass Ejection, explosion of the sun:

 

Deuteronomy 32:34 & 22 I have sealed up in My storehouse, in reserve for the Day of punishment - a fire that My anger will set ablaze, that will burn the earth to the depths of hell.  

2 Samuel 22:8 The earth heaved and shook, the sky parted and devouring fire came down.

Psalm 11:6 The Lord will rain down fiery coals and scorching winds will punish the godless.

Psalm 18:7-15 The earth quaked because of the Lord’s anger, the heavens parted and smoke, extreme heat and devouring fire came down as He thundered amid thick clouds.

Psalm 79:5-6 Pour out Your wrath on those peoples who hate You, Your fury will blaze like fire.

Psalm 83:14-15 Pursue them with Your storm winds, as fire blazes across the hills.

Psalm 97:2-5 Thick cloud enfolds the Lord, as He consumes His enemies all around. Fire goes ahead of Him, lightning flashes light up the world and the earth trembles.

Psalm 110:5-6 On the Day of the Lord’s wrath, He will judge the nations, spreading death all over

Proverbs 10:25 When the whirlwind passes, the wicked are gone.

Isaiah 9:18 For evil is set ablaze and burned like a thorn bush, they are wrapped in smoke.

Isaiah 10:3 What will you do when devastation from afar confronts you?

Isaiah 10:17 The Holy One of Israel will become a fire that in one Day will consume His enemies.

Isaiah 13:9-13 The Day of the Lord is coming, to reduce the earth to a desolation and destroy the wicked there. The sky will tear apart and the earth will quake on the cruel Day of His blazing anger. Humans will become as scarce as fine gold.

Isaiah 29:6 Suddenly in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord, with thunder, violent storms, earthquakes and flames of devouring fire.

Isaiah 30:26-28 The sun will shine seven times stronger....the Lord comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy, a devouring fire to sieve out the nations for destruction.

Isaiah 33:10-12 The Lord will arise and exalt Himself. His breath is a fire that burns the chaff to a stubble. Whole nations will be like heaps of white ash.

Isaiah 34:1-5 Listen all you peoples: The Lord’s anger is against all the nations, He gives then over to slaughter and destruction. Their dead will lie everywhere and the stink will rise up. The sky will roll up like a scroll when the sword of the Lord appears.

Isaiah 51:6 Look; The sky will disperse like smoke, the earth will become tattered and torn and the inhabitants will die like flies....

Isaiah 64:1-3 & 10 Lord: tear asunder the heavens, come down, make mountains shake, make fire blaze as if burning brushwood, hot enough to make water boil. Surprise us with awesome things. You make Zion a wilderness and Jerusalem desolate.

Isaiah 66:15-16 The Lord is coming in fire, as a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His furious anger, with the flaming fire of His rebukes. He will judge all mankind with fire and many will be slain by Him.

 

Jeremiah 4:7 The Destroyer of nations has risen from his lair, it will devastate the land and make your cities waste and empty.

Jeremiah 9:10-11 & 22 Mourn for the Land, it is scorched and untrodden by man or beast, even the birds have gone. The towns of Judah will be a waste, without inhabitants. Corpses will lie like dung in the fields, like swaths behind the reaper with no one to gather them.

Jeremiah 23:19 A scorching whirlwind goes out from the Lord, it whirls around the wicked.

Jeremiah 25:30-31 The Lord roars from on high, the great noise reaches around the world. He makes His charge against all mankind and the godless are given to the sword.

Jeremiah 30:24 The Lord’s fierce anger is not to be turned aside, it will accomplish it purpose.

Ezekiel 20:47-48 The Lord is about to kindle a fire in the Land, its fiery flame cannot be put out, it will scorch everyone. All will see that it was I, The Lord who has done this.

Ezekiel 30:3-5 A Day is near, a Day of darkness and reckoning for the nations. A sword will fall upon the Middle East, all those peoples will fall on that Day.

Ezekiel 32:6-10  I shall darken the sky on the Day I punish Egypt, blood will drench the land.

Joel 1:19-20 To You, Lord, I cry out, for fire has consumed the pastures and trees.

Joel 2:1-11 The Day of the Lord is coming, a Day of darkness, a vast host appears – before them is a leaping flame, after is a desolate waste. The earth quakes as the Lord thunders.

Amos 1:2-15 The Lord thunders from Zion, the Land is arid and desolate. For the crimes of Damascus, Gaza, Tyre, Edom, Ammon, and Judah, I shall send fire to consume them.

Amos 8:8 The whole earth will surge and seethe like the Nile. [The microwave effect of a CME]

Micah 1:3-4 The Lord comes down and walks on the heights of the earth. At His touch mountains dissolve like wax and valleys are torn open.

Nahum 1:3-6 The Lord will not let the guilty go unpunished, His way is by the whirlwind and the storm, the earth and all who live in it are in tumult at His presence. His rage is poured out like fire and the land quakes before Him.

Habakkuk 3:3-15 The Lord comes from Sinai, His splendid radiance covers the sky, but He is veiled from sight. In His fury, He traverses the earth, trampling down the nations.

Zephaniah 1:14-18 The great Day of the Lord is near and coming fast. It will be a Day of wrath, destruction and death, a Day of darkness, loud noise and by His fire the whole Land will be consumed, for He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the Land.

Haggai 2:21 ....I shall shake the heavens and the earth, overthrow rulers and destroy all military powers.

Zechariah 9:14 The Lord will appear over His people and His arrows will flash forth like lightning. He will sound the battle trumpet and advance with the storm winds of the South.

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the arrogant and all evildoers will be as stubble, the Day will set them ablaze, leaving them neither root nor branch.

 

2 Esdras 15:23 The Lord’s anger has burst out in flames, scorching the earth to its foundations and consuming sinners like burning straw.

2 Esdras 16:12-16 The earth is shaken to its very foundations and the sea is in turmoil. Strong is His arm, He lets loose calamities, nothing will stop them until they hit the earth. The fire is alight, it cannot be put out until it consumes the earth.   [ Apocrypha]

 

Luke 3:17 .....the chaff He will burn on a fire that can never be put out.

Hebrews 10:27 There is only the terrifying expectation of a fierce fire which will consume God’s enemies.

2 Peter 3:10 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. On that Day the sky will dissolve with a great rushing sound and the earth will be enveloped in flames, bringing all in it to judgement.

Revelation 6:12-17 The Sixth Seal: There was a violent earthquake, the sun was blackened and the moon looked red as blood. The satellites crashed to earth as the magnetosphere and the atmosphere was swept aside. Everyone was terrified and tried to take cover, as they cried out: The great Day of the wrath of God and His Son has come and who can stand?

                                                                                Reference: REB. Some verses abridged.

 

 

 

 

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

13 hours ago, Keras said:

I get it from Bible prophecy.

None of those verses say the sun explodes and burns a third of the earth.

You just made it up quite apart from Bible prophecy. 

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

None of those verses say the sun explodes and burns a third of the earth.

You just made it up quite apart from Bible prophecy. 

Your great desire to refute me because I challenge the rapture belief, makes you confused and to accuse me of things I did not say.

The sun will not completely explode, but do what it has done many times in the past; send out a Coronal Mass Ejection. This time, a CME of unprecedented magnitude, that will literally fulfil all the prophesied descriptions of the Lord's Day of wrath.   It will strike the Middle East at mid day, Zephaniah 2:4 and that area will be depopulated, Jeremiah 10:18, but the rest of the world will mostly survive. The 1/3 rd  killed comes later, during the Great Trib.

[Serving]

On 30/01/2017 at 9:49 AM, Lawlord said:

Greetings Serving!

Yes the demonic locusts was one woe, two more are coming. I believe they will follow right after each other. 

The 200 million are lead by four angels that are bound underground and released for this specific day to kill a third of mankind. If they are angels, and they have been bound underground, then they are demons. They are the fallen angels. They lead their 200 million army.

I understand your view on this, I considered this view myself and I can see how it can be applicable. 

We are told there are riders on horses, and those ontop of the horses had breastplates of red,blue and yellow, the horses had heads of lions with out of their mouth came fire, smoke and brimstone. They have power in their mouth and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents, having heads, and with them they do harm.

So this could be an army of vehicles or military weapons. That fits the fire, smoke and brimstone. Daniel 7:7 KJV "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns"

So in this passage we have description of a dreadful and terrible beast with iron teeth. Iron is a description used, which goes well with iron used in tanks, weapons, APCs all that stuff. I know there will be global war and there will be these huge armies of military equipment, however, I also believe demons will come upon the earth. As mankind has worshipped them for so long they will be given to them.

I've had so many dreams about demons before, demonic creatures coming upon the earth. Great darkness emerging. Another reason I believe that those who believe in Jesus will be on the earth is to counter the great darkness, to make a choice for all from darkness and light. If the light was taken from the earth, there would only be darkness and no choice of salvation for those in darkness. 

I've had dreams of these demons, I never could have imagined. I saw a large room full underground as they were torturing a small child as I felt his pain. I've seen different types. I've battled against them, I've attempted to cast them out in my dreams. There are possessions, then there are actual physical demons. I believe they will be coming upon the earth. This is satans rise to obvious world rulership. We are told in Revelation 6:8 the pale horse, the name of him that sat on it was death, and hell followed with him.

I know a lot of these things are in spirit, and there are a lot of battles going on in spirit. But consider CERN and the increase in wickedness and the death that is coming. These demons derive strength from sacrifices and will be empowered when there is death everywhere. They opened a tunnel near CERN and did a demon welcoming ceremony in front of it, dressing up as all different types of demons, appearing to come from a portal.

I do believe demons will walk the earth. So because they aren't described as iron beasts, they aren't described as iron chariots, they are described as horses with lion mouths and snake tails. It could be a large traditional army in this age, as there will definitely be a large army like this, or it could be something else. Thanks for your post. 

 

Hi Lawlord,

Okay, that's good.

But let me point out that "demonic creatures" coming upon the earth is not accurate. Why? Because they HAVE been at work on the earth all this time since being kicked out of heaven after crucifixion. Sure some of them are locked up in the pit, and the 4 at Euphrates, but that doesn't mean that the rest of them have been absent, they have been here all along working their rebellion against God amongst mankind walking around with Satan showing themselves as ministers of Light to deceive.

It's not that they have been absent, it is just that they have been held back by God from doing anything before their time. God is in control as you know, even the fallen ones can not do anything unless God permits it, and when the time is right for global events to kick in, then God will let them step it up a notch.

God bless. 

[Lawlord]

4 minutes ago, Serving said:

Hi Lawlord,

Okay, that's good.

But let me point out that "demonic creatures" coming upon the earth is not accurate. Why? Because they HAVE been at work on the earth all this time since being kicked out of heaven after crucifixion. Sure some of them are locked up in the pit, and the 4 at Euphrates, but that doesn't mean that the rest of them have been absent, they have been here all along working their rebellion against God amongst mankind walking around with Satan showing themselves as ministers of Light to deceive.

It's not that they have been absent, it is just that they have been held back by God from doing anything before their time. God is in control as you know, even the fallen ones can not do anything unless God permits it, and when the time is right for global events to kick in, then God will let them step it up a notch.

God bless. 

Agreed. I know they are active and present. Look at the state of the world! 

But I believe in the coming times they will be more active, and eventually in the physical. I've had many dreams on this topic that physical demons will be coming upon the earth, but I don't expect people to see it the way I do. Yes this is God's story and God is in control of all, even the demons who, if they are unleashed, it will be by God's will. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by Lawlord

[Marcus O'Reillius]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

Your great desire to refute me because I challenge the rapture belief, makes you confused and to accuse me of things I did not say.

This is approaching delusional.

Are you playing God's role thinking you know hearts and minds?

You misrepresent the very WORD of God when you ignore that when God heals the wounds He has inflicted and take the figurative depiction of the sun shines brightly to mean plasma is going to spew from the sun and burn the earth.

The very fact that God is healing the wounds He has inflicted ought to bring two questions to the forefront:

1. Why were they inflicted, and
2. Why is God healing them?

The Jews do not follow the commands of Jesus, nor do they hold onto His testimony.  They will encounter God in a frightful way and two-thirds of them will die.

Some will be protected: the Remnant.

Others will survive, and those that do will be much the worse for living through the time of God's Wrath which does not involve an exploding sun.  God will bring them into the Millennium and they will be His People as much as we are.  Both are united in Christ - but that has not yet happened.  The full number of the Gentiles must come in first to raise Israel's jealousy. 

There is no verse which can be construed to mean a "coronal mass ejection" which happen all the time.  And the sun is never said to be the source for the fire which will happen on the Day of the Lord.  The ONLY explanation for that is an Angels who has charge of the fire.

Replacement theology confuses Israel for the Church.

And yes, I accuse you of misrepresenting Isaiah 30:26.
I also accuse you of re-writing Isaiah 30 to suit your weird eschatology as you did on the Christianity Board a while ago.

[n2thelight]

Simple question

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

When is the end?

Revelation 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.."

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

4 hours ago, n2thelight said:

When is the end?

End of the Church Age: the Day of the Lord.
End of the fourth terrible beast: end of the one 'seven'.
End of the nations: some time after that (Daniel 7:12).
End of the Rule of Man: 1335 days after the midpoint abomination.
End of the earth: after the Millennium and the last rebellion.
End of God's Kingdom?  Never ending.

[Keras]

14 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

And yes, I accuse you of misrepresenting Isaiah 30:26.
I also accuse you of re-writing Isaiah 30 to suit your weird eschatology as you did on the Christianity Board a while ago.

James 4:11-12

This thread is about the rapture. We await some, any, proof that God intends to do such a thing from those who believe they will be taken to heaven before anything nasty happens on earth.