9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..

[wingnut-]

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

1. No, the church was conceived in the first century. Life begins at conception, not birth
2. Even Paul felt prematurely born, 1 Cor 15:8
3. The church will be born in the end times (through rapture), for it has been in gestation for 2,000 years
4. Rev 12:1-5 sign only occurs once on Stellarium, this is yet future and is coming to pass on 9/23/17.
5. Rev 12:1-5 sign only occurs once in 7,000 years.
6. Rev 12:1-5 sign is referring to corporate entities (Israel/antichrist system/body of Christ), not singular.
7. Notice the word "teknon" in Rev 12:4-5. This is a corporate word.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.   2  She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.   3  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.   4  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

The church has many titles, I think it has over like 30 titles. For example, your boss at work is called a CEO, father, son, brother etc..your boss is not your father at work, he's your CEO, context is key.

Rev 2:26-27 is in reference to the church ruling with Christ. The letters to the 7 churches...

notice John is using the words "huios" and also "teknon" to connect the head with the body through rapture. If this was simply about Jesus, John would of used "huios" in all three places...

Rev 12:4-5  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

1 Thess 5:5 for you are all sons (huios) of light and sons (huios) of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

"Teknon" the child, is us (the body of Christ.) Notice how teknon is used twice in verse 4 AND 5. God is rescuing us from the red dragon through rapture! 

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.   2  She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.   3  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.   4  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Yup, and Rev 12:1-5 is in the Word of God, thus it's astronomy.

 

 

Hello Hebrews,

I disagree that the church is born in the end times, because I am part of the church now and see that it was born in the 1st century following His resurrection.  I am going to quote your breakdown of that verse and show you where you are contradicting yourself.

 

43 minutes ago, Allroses48 said:

5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

 

She gave birth to Jesus you said, which I agree with, but then you suddenly turn the child into the church.  There aren't two children born, the passage says nothing about twins.  Here is a more modern example of how this is understood.

 

Your friend and his wife are expecting, he texts you and says she is in labor, you respond and say let me know how it goes.  A few hours later he texts you and says, "She had a son, and the child is beautiful."

Do you then go and tell everyone that they had a son, and their daughter is beautiful?  I suspect not, because when he tells you the child is beautiful he is still talking about the son that was born and not some mystery child that wasn't mentioned.  It's the same child.  As a writer I assure you this is how things are done, and God is a much better writer than man will ever be.  He is also not the author of confusion, and your rendering goes against basic reading comprehension.

If the passage spoke of multiple children then your explanation would be plausible, but the passage does not, it speaks of a child, a male child.  As far as the mentioning of being caught up, have you considered what Jesus was doing for the three days His body was in the tomb?  I would offer that He was not dormant, but in Abraham's bosom and once He had spoken to those there, He took their souls to heaven.  Then He returned and presented Himself to His followers in a glorified body.  Remember that they did not recognize Him when He returned from the grave, anyway, just something to consider.

God bless

 

[Heb 13:8]

5 hours ago, Spock said:

What's on my mind? Same old, same old....

i still believe the rapture is on Rev 7:9-16 and pretty much after the abomination of desolation. I believe we will see a lot- peace treaty, temple rebuilt, and then the dreaded abomination of desolation, and of course the two witnesses in Israel.  

Thus, I don't believe your theory is correct.  Again, I'm rooting for you though......

Think of it this way, believers are the restrainer holding back darkness. Once the rapture occurs the lights are turned off, similar to how you turn your lights off in your house.

Rev 7:9 is just another layer of Rev 4&5. The children of God are of the light and of the day, and the 70th week is 7 years of darkness. If the church entered into the 70th week, God would be in contradiction..

Joe 2:1-2 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.

Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.

Zep 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

5 hours ago, Allroses48 said:

Where did you get the 9/23/17 date? I don't see it anywhere in the Bible. 

God uses the Jewish calender to fulfill His Feast days. Feast of Trumpets just happens to land around that time, I believe on 9/21/17.

4 hours ago, other one said:

that sign in Rev. Chapter 12 verse 1-2 will literally be in the sky on that date...    It has not happened at least back to the days of Adam and Eve and from my computer program will not happen again in at least 7,000 years.    It is a totally unique happening in the sky.    Can't speak for the rest of what he's saying for I haven't had time to digest it all, but that sign will be in the heavens and as the movement of Jupiter for the next seven years may well be some timing until the end of days

I see you're waking up. Good work brother.

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I disagree that the church is born in the end times, because I am part of the church now and see that it was born in the 1st century following His resurrection. 

1. The church must be born in the end times, to live in Heaven. (corruptible to incorruptible) 1 Cor 15:50, 1 Cor 15:51-54

2. Life begins at conception, not birth. Why do you think God hates abortion so much. Matt 1:18-20, Luke 1:35

Quote

She gave birth to Jesus you said, which I agree with, but then you suddenly turn the child into the church.  There aren't two children born, the passage says nothing about twins. 

John is the one that used both "hiuos" and "teknon", not me. 

Listen carefully to what I'm saying here. There aren't two children being born. Rather, John is connecting the head with the body by using "huios" and "teknon". The head of the church is (Jesus Christ), and the body is us (born again believers). The head (Jesus Christ) was born into incorruptible seed 2,000 years ago when He ascended into heaven. Now it's the body's turn to be born into incorruptible seed, which is rapture. Read 1 Cor 15:50-54!

The body must be connected with the head. Every time someone gets saved they get put into the body of Christ. For 2,000 years the baby has been getting bigger and bigger and bigger. This is called the "gestation period". Sooner or later the baby must be born and must come out of the womb. The child will be birthed in September. You must have spiritual eyes and ears to understand this.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

If you study the birth of the church you will see Virgo giving birth to Jupiter in September of 2017. Jupiter is the king planet which represents Christ and also the body (the church) that is in Christ. When you become saved the Holy Spirit indwells you, and you become one with the body of Christ. God is using a birthing metaphor to describe the conception of the church 2,000 years ago, and He is also using a birthing metaphor in the end times by using the sun, moon, stars and planets. The conception of the church began at Pentecost 2,000 years ago and has been in gestation for 2,000 years up until now. Jesus Christ is the head of the church, and born again Christians are the body. The head came out of the womb when Jesus was resurrected and ascended to heaven 2,000 years ago.

When you study a natural birth of a baby being born the head comes out first, then the body. The body of Jesus Christ which is the church (Jupiter) entered Virgo's womb in November of 2016 and is in a gestation period right now. The church will be birthed in September of 2017 which will be 42 weeks in the womb (a normal gestation period for a natural birth).

Quote

If the passage spoke of multiple children then your explanation would be plausible, but the passage does not, it speaks of a child, a male child. 

Just study the word "teknon". It's a corporate word. The church is also described as male..

1 Thess 5:5 for you are all sons (huios) of light and sons (huios) of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

Quote

As far as the mentioning of being caught up, have you considered what Jesus was doing for the three days His body was in the tomb?

If Rev 12:1-5 were pointing to the birth of Christ 2,000 years ago it would read like this..

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Mary) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.   2  She (Mary) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.   3  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Herod) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.   4  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Herod) stood in front of the woman (Mary) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (huios Jesus Christ himself) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (huios Jesus Christ himself) was lifted up (epairó) to God and to his throne.

But it doesn't, rather it reads like this..

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.   2  She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.   3  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.   4  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Also, Jesus lived for 33 years before ascending to heaven. Rev 12:5 has the child being snatched up to God's throne right away.

Isa 26:17-21 As a pregnant woman about to give birth writhes and cries out in her pain, so were we in your presence, Lord. 18We were with child, we writhed in labor, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth, and the people of the world have not come to life. 19But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer. 

A Side Note: I do believe epairó and harpazo have two different meanings and exegesis. Jesus wasn't caught up, He was lifted (raised) up because at that point He had defeated the devil. He didn't need to be obtained by robbery because He won.

The church however does need to be obtained by robbery, because of the red dragon. We need Jesus help.

epairó
1. to be lifted up, not a rescue
2. Jesus ascended slowly in victory from the devil

harpazo
1. to be snatched away, rescued
2. The church will be snatched away quickly, from red dragon

epairó: to lift up
Original Word: ἐπαίρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epairó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ahee'-ro)
Short Definition: I raise, lift up
Definition: I raise, lift up.

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

[wingnut-]

19 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Think of it this way, believers are the restrainer holding back darkness. Once the rapture occurs the lights are turned off, similar to how you turn your lights off in your house.

 

Hello Hebrews,

Believers are not the restrainer as I see it, have you read threads on this forum or been in a church of late?  A whole lot of false teachings floating around out there that in short, strike right at the heart of the biblical message and God's inerrancy.  I think Daniel tells us pretty plainly who the restrainer is, and also Revelation touches on it.  In all of scripture we only see one individual that battles against satan directly.

 

Daniel 12  “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

 

Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

Michael is only mentioned a few times in scripture, and it is always in relation to him battling the enemy.  The archangels are really the only ones in scripture that are said to do this, mankind is clearly incapable.

Your presentation is a much better rendering than the typical pre-trib scenario, but still faces the same issue with the many other holes.  For example, the order Paul gives in I Corinthians 15, which is Christ the firstfuits, afterward those who remain in Christ at His coming.  Or has he tells in I Thessalonians that the dead rise first and then the living.  In neither instance does it say this happens repeatedly, or on multiple occasions, but in each instance it does say that it happens at His coming.

 

Like Spock I can only say I wish you were correct, but come 9/24/2017 I do hope you look at some of the alternatives.  I am still unclear why you would think someone would need to be prepared if they are leaving before the trouble begins.

God bless

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Believers are not the restrainer as I see it, have you read threads on this forum or been in a church of late?  A whole lot of false teachings floating around out there that in short, strike right at the heart of the biblical message and God's inerrancy.  I think Daniel tells us pretty plainly who the restrainer is, and also Revelation touches on it.  In all of scripture we only see one individual that battles against satan directly.

I used to think Michael was the restrainer too. I used to be Pre-Wrath until I began studying the Rev 12 sign. I now see that Michael is not the restrainer, for his war is in heaven not on earth, Rev 12:7. The restrainer and what is being restrained (darkness) takes place on earth. The antichrist and the third temple all take place on earth, 2 Thess 2:1-12.

Think of it this way, believers are the restrainer holding back darkness. Once the rapture occurs the lights are turned off, similar to how you turn your lights off in your house. The children of God are of the light and of the day, and the 70th week is 7 years of darkness. If the church entered into the 70th week, God would be in contradiction..

Scottie explains this well.. youtube / watch?v=amYGukr4sdM&t=10s

Joel 2:1-2 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.

Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.

Zep 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

Quote

Or has he tells in I Thessalonians that the dead rise first and then the living.  In neither instance does it say this happens repeatedly, or on multiple occasions, but in each instance it does say that it happens at His coming.

The dead and the living will be caught up together..

1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

[wingnut-]

2 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I used to think Michael was the restrainer too. I used to be Pre-Wrath until I began studying the Rev 12 sign. I now see that Michael is not the restrainer, for his war is in heaven not on earth, Rev 12:7. The restrainer and what is being restrained (darkness) takes place on earth. The antichrist and the third temple all take place on earth, 2 Thess 2:1-12.

Think of it this way, believers are the restrainer holding back darkness. Once the rapture occurs the lights are turned off, similar to how you turn your lights off in your house. The children of God are of the light and of the day, and the 70th week is 7 years of darkness. If the church entered into the 70th week, God would be in contradiction..

Scottie explains this well.. youtube / watch?v=amYGukr4sdM&t=10s

Joel 2:1-2 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.

Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.

Zep 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

The dead and the living will be caught up together..

1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

That is only true if one believes the day of the Lord is more than just a day.

 

As far as Michael is concerned, this is not the case according to Daniel.

 

Daniel 12  “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

 

Gabriel also speaks about how Michael assists him in protecting the people.  The restrainer may not be just Michael but the archangels, and from what is found in the book of Daniel is not about what is happening in heaven, but on earth.

God bless

[Heb 13:8]

4 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

That is only true if one believes the day of the Lord is more than just a day.

The Day of the Lord I believe is the 1290 + 1260 + 1335 days after rapture.

Quote

As far as Michael is concerned, this is not the case according to Daniel.

 

Daniel 12  “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

 

Gabriel also speaks about how Michael assists him in protecting the people.  The restrainer may not be just Michael but the archangels, and from what is found in the book of Daniel is not about what is happening in heaven, but on earth.

God bless

Dan 12:1 is just a reflection of Rev 12:7. Believers go up to heaven and Satan comes down. Daniel describes who these people are, they are believers in Christ who's names are written in the book of life. "Will be delivered" is just another term for first resurrection and rapture. It's even proven in Dan 12:2..

Dan 12:1-2 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Again, the restrainer has nothing to do with the war in heaven. The restraining takes place on earth. The restrainer and what is being restrained (darkness) takes place on earth. If believers weren't removed the antichrist wouldn't be able to accomplish his goals. The antichrist, the new world order and the third temple all take place on earth, 2 Thess 2:1-12, Rev 13.

Notice this time of trouble is called "trouble for Jacob". Also notice the woman in labor connected to it. This September, Israel is giving birth to the body of Christ and being caught up to God's throne before Jacob's trouble begins. The term "trouble for Jacob" is referring to Israel..

Gen 32:28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome."

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Jer 30:6-7 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? 7How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.

I would also like to point out that Isa 66:7-9 is referring to when Israel in one day became a nation on 5/15/48 (on Pentecost to be precise), but it could also be alluding to rapture and Daniel's 70th week of tribulation; the amazing reversal as some eschatologists put it. Birth then labor pains, rapture then tribulation. It's good to keep this in mind when referring back to 9/23/17.

Isa 66:7-9 “Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. 8 Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children. 9 Do I bring to the moment of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Do I close up the womb when I bring to delivery?” says your God.

[wingnut-]

5 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The Day of the Lord I believe is the 1290 + 1260 + 1335 days after rapture.

 

 

I understand, but it seems you are kind of caught in between what you once believed and what you now believe.  Let me show you an example of how your current position in regards to the Day of the Lord being 7 years is problematic.

 

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

 

So how can a kingdom be plunged into darkness if it has been dark since day 1 of the 7 years?

[wingnut-]

30 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Dan 12:1 is just a reflection of Rev 12:7. Believers go up to heaven and Satan comes down. Daniel describes who these people are, they are believers in Christ who's names are written in the book of life. "Will be delivered" is just another term for first resurrection and rapture. It's even proven in Dan 12:2..

 

 

Well, Daniel 12 is speaking directly to that time, but that is not the only mention in the book of Daniel I referred to.

 

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 

 

Daniel 10:20 So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth.(No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.

 

Michael is only mentioned one other time which has not been touched on, in the book of Jude.

 

Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

 

Always in a position of defending God's people, it would appear to me that is what the archangels do, wouldn't you agree?

God bless

[Heb 13:8]

4 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

I understand, but it seems you are kind of caught in between what you once believed and what you now believe.  Let me show you an example of how your current position in regards to the Day of the Lord being 7 years is problematic.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

So how can a kingdom be plunged into darkness if it has been dark since day 1 of the 7 years?

Darkness was actually one of the plagues of Egypt..

Exod 10:21-23 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward the sky so that darkness spreads over Egypt—darkness that can be felt.” 22So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and total darkness covered all Egypt for three days. 23No one could see anyone else or move about for three days. Yet all the Israelites had light in the places where they lived.

I do believe there are levels of darkness and delusion inside the 70th week. If you think about it, people go from the shock of the rapture all the way to trumpet and bowl judgments which are the worst of judgments. Also, the word in Rev 16:10 is "darkened" not darkness. The darkness made the people’s pains feel much worse..

4656 [e]    eskotōmenē    ἐσκοτωμένη,    darkened;    V-RPM/P-NFS

skotoó: to darken
Original Word: σκοτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: skotoó
Phonetic Spelling: (skot-o'-o)
Short Definition: I darken
Definition: (lit. or met.) I darken.

v10 The fifth (5th) *angel poured out the contents of his bowl on the *throne of the *beast. The place where he ruled as king became completely dark. And people bit their tongues because of their pain. 

Verse 10 The *throne of the *beast means all that he ruled. The whole of his *kingdom became dark. There was no light. The dark was completely black. The darkness made the people’s pains feel much worse. So, the people bit their tongues because of the pain.

https://www.easyenglish.bible/bible-commentary/revelation-lbw.htm

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Also notice that the church is referred to as sons/children in Daniel 12:1. That's because Israel is our mother, and we are the sons/children of God... 1121 [e]    bə-nê    בְּנֵ֣י    the children    Noun

ben: son
Original Word: בֵּן
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ben
Phonetic Spelling: (bane)
Short Definition: sons

[wingnut-]

59 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Darkness was actually one of the plagues of Egypt..

Exod 10:21-23 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward the sky so that darkness spreads over Egypt—darkness that can be felt.” 22So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and total darkness covered all Egypt for three days. 23No one could see anyone else or move about for three days. Yet all the Israelites had light in the places where they lived.

I do believe there are levels of darkness and delusion inside the 70th week. If you think about it, people go from the shock of the rapture all the way to trumpet and bowl judgments which are the worst of judgments. Also, the word in Rev 16:10 is "darkened" not darkness. The darkness made the people’s pains feel much worse..

 

 

Yes, I am constantly reminding people of the ten plagues and their relation to the end times.  The most important factor in that regards is that Israel remained in Egypt but did not suffer God's plagues, just like believers won't suffer them in the end times.  The best illustration is the lamb's blood they put over their doors for the death angel to pass over, a representation of how believers are covered by the blood of the Lamb.

In regards to the 7 years of darkness, just prior to the bowl that plunges the beasts kingdom into darkness you have this bowl, which again contradicts the idea of 7 years of darkness.

 

Revelation 16:8 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

 

Sun that scorches with fire, doesn't sound dark at all.  This is of course just prior to the bowl that plunges the kingdom into darkness.  As to the thought about the Day of the Lord having different levels of darkness, more issues with your rendering.

 

Zechariah 14:6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.

 

How does one encounter no light, neither day or night when being scorched with fire from the sun?  And also, as verse 7 says, it shall be one day.

 

Joel 2  Blow the trumpet in Zion,
And sound an alarm in My holy mountain!
Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble;
For the day of the Lord is coming,
For it is at hand:
2 A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
Like the morning clouds spread over the mountains.
A people come, great and strong,
The like of whom has never been;
Nor will there ever be any such after them,
Even for many successive generations.

 

The above is from the prophet Joel, notice what is happening on the Day of the Lord, who is this large and mighty army that is coming?  Will it take this large and mighty army such as never was or ever will be 7 years to arrive?  Who do you suppose is leading this army?  And how can this large and mighty army coming resemble dawn spreading on a day such as described?

 

Joel 2:10 The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
11 The Lord gives voice before His army,
For His camp is very great;
For strong is the One who executes His word.
For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible;
Who can endure it?

 

Does any of the above look familiar, how about the sixth seal in Revelation?  The Day of the Lord is the very day that Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24, at His coming.

 

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

 

If you compare this to what is said in Joel, I think you will find it matches up nicely, along with the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th bowl, 7th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th bowl.  These final judgments come quickly, as we are told that the 3rd woe quickly follows the 2nd woe.  The three woes are attached to the last three trumpets.

 

Revelation 8:12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.

13 And I looked, and I heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, “Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”

 

This follows the 4th trumpet, which again pay attention to how a third of the day was without light, is that possible if it's been dark for 7 years?  The other three trumpet blasts would be the 5th, 6th, and 7th trumpets.  Three woes right there.  Following the 5th trumpet we see this.

 

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

 

So we know that the second woe is the 6th trumpet, but look where we are told the second woe is past.

 

Revelation 11:13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

 

This takes place after the two witnesses are killed and go up to heaven, and the 3rd woe (which is the 7th trumpet) comes quickly.  So the two witnesses are here for how long?  1260 days.  They are here for the last half of the 7 years, the same time Israel is in the wilderness protected, and the beast is waging war against the saints, who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.  All of these events are specified as 3 1/2 years, and the three woes are attached to the last three trumpets.  Which should make it clear why Jesus says this in Revelation 16.

 

Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

 

God bless