The Truth Behind the Bathroom Battles: What's Really At Stake

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, Tea Ess said:

Calling them by their dead name is just going to make them turn off of your message entirely.

No, it won't.   'Cause it is not their dead name.  

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Jesus'a first words to the Samaritan woman weren't "you are a horrible sinner who will burn in hell." Regardless of how it's intended, trans people perceive this as hatred against them and frequently leave Christianity altogether. 

No one is suggesting that we open a conversation about them going to Hell.   But Jesus didn't perpetuate the lie, either.   He confronted the Samaritan woman about her sin.   He didn't accept her sin and didn't help her remain comfortable in it, like you are suggesting we do with trans people.   Jesus changed her and gave her the satisfaction and fulfillment she was seeking. People want peace and fulfillment and transgenderism doesn't bring that.   Sin only leaves people miserable and without the peace they are looking for.  Leading people to Jesus is how we bring them out of sin and is how they find peace.   They need Jesus, not surgery or drugs or whatever.   What they need is an encounter with the living Jesus. 

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Have you ever experienced   gender disphoria? It's a physiological problem, and the best means we have to treat it are physical. Telling trans people to just seek the Gospel is like telling a cancer patient to abandon their treatment and just accept the Gospel. 

No, that comparison is really flawed.   transgenderism isn't physical problem.   It is a spiritual/mental problem and only the Gospel will provide a permanent cure.   Cancer is not a moral perversion so your comparison holds no water.   

[simplejeff]

AMEIN.

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

It is a spiritual/mental problem and only the Gospel will provide a permanent cure. 

Compare as able:  (concerning training)

If a 3 year old is already a thief,  and the parents or guardians do nothing about it (they probably taught the 3 year old up till then,  and thus .... ) ,

when that 3 year old grows to the teen years,   he will be that much more a thief, 

unless directed in the way he should live before then,   

and if they get to be 30 or 40 years old,  so much more so.

The time to correct behavior is early on,  as later their may not be the possibility.

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Tea Ess said:

Well, I'm a born again Christian, and I hold an opinion that's different than yours. 

There's a fairly wide variety of surgeries trans people can pursue, many of which deal with feminization or masculinization of the face, chest reduction/augmentation, and of course SRS or sex reassignment surgery, which is what people usually associate with trans people.

These surgeries cost thousands of dollars, and they can be difficult to afford, especially since trans people are more likely to be homeless and often deal with discrimination in the workplace, even to the point of being fired for no reason other than being transgender. SRS is  the most expensive, costing about $20,000 for the  hospital, anesthesia, and surgery. It's also difficult to get, since trans people must show two letters from licensed therapists proving they are experiencing gender disphoria and that the surgery would improve their quality of life. On top of this, they must also show they've been taking the appropriate hormones for the gender they're transitioning to. Finally, there are very few doctors able and willing to perform SRS, and I've been told the waiting lists can be years long. 

SRS is a very personal decision, and whether or not a person gets it is dependent on their health, finances, and experience with gender disphoria. Some people are affected more by their outward presentation and don't care as much about SRS. Others want to get it but can't afford to. Overall, it's something that's up to the individual, and really doesn't have to be our concern, unless we're that person's doctor or significant other. 

And what are they going to tell the Lord when they stand before him?  'I think you made a mistake so I corrected it'?  I worry more about their souls than their illness.  Everything you describe is a sin since it tries to change what God made.

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Tea Ess said:

The first step in loving them is calling them by the names they prefer. 

You're right in saying that many trans people commit suicide, but I think you've been misled about the cause. According to the National Transgender Discriminstion Survey, 41% of trans people have attempted suicide. The leading causes are sexual assault, physical assault, harassment in school, and job loss due to bias. 1 in 5 trans kids suffer abuse from their own families due to their gender identity. 

The best ways to reduce suicide rates among trans people are familial acceptance and physical transition, to lessen or get rid of the disphoria. 

What about their souls, Tea Ess?  Why is it moral to help them to hell instead of trying to help their mental illness?

[Behold]

I'll try to keep this simple.

 

This entire "Transgender" issue is really not what you see..., or what you think.

It much more devious and devilish.... and subversive.

Simply.........its a guise, its a ruse......... its an incredible societal "bait and switch".

What is really happening is that the "Gay" community understands that if they can use the law to create and force PUBLIC acceptance for the completely absurd and most "wild" bent sexuality, (Transgenderism) ( is anything crazier in reality? ) then they have achieved their real goal..   Understand their (Gay community)=  real goal is not at all to get you to accept Transgenderism.......no.....their real goal is to get you so associated with the strangest sexuality they can provide, and in this way, homosexuality will not seem as bizarre or immoral any more and THUS much much much more ACCEPTABLE.

You are being baited and associated with with crazy sexuality, so that you can be switched to RETHINK a new perspective =  that GAY is kinda normal when compared...  = WHEN COMPARED...

See it?

Now that is the devil's psychology in all its deviant GLORY, revealed......as its being masterminded in our public arena using all available social media and "pop" personalities and even "christianity".

And THAT is how this country is being trained to RE-think and by this, they become more accepting......not of Transgenders, but of "Homosexuality", and THAT is their goal.

See, when you are forced to deal with the worst, then the bad no longer appears quite as bad and is found to be acceptable over time....... and THAT is their game plan.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Behold

[OneLight]

Blanket statements are both harmful and a lie.  Not all gay communities what to destroy the family, they just want to be accepted for who they are.  Not knowing God as we do, their morals are defined much different than ours. Their morals are secular in nature.  In the secular world, up to about 50 years ago, some gay people had been forced to undergo electric shock treatments as it was once though it to be a mental illness and not a spiritual one, and that these electric chock treatments would bring them back into reality.

I would like to get a census of how many people replying to this thread have personally dealt with "gay" people personally?  I am not talking about debating them or picketing them, but personally sat down with them and discussed their lifestyles with them.

To set my questions into perspective, I believe being gay is a sin issue and against Gods design.  This does not include those who are born with both genders physical parts, which is a whole different discussion.  I have personally dealt with this issue in my immediate family and can see the difference between those who are just spout out scripture and those who have been involved in their lives personally.

[MorningGlory]

4 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Blanket statements are both harmful and a lie.  Not all gay communities what to destroy the family, they just want to be accepted for who they are.  Not knowing God as we do, their morals are defined much different than ours. Their morals are secular in nature.  In the secular world, up to about 50 years ago, some gay people had been forced to undergo electric shock treatments as it was once though it to be a mental illness and not a spiritual one, and that these electric chock treatments would bring them back into reality.

I would like to get a census of how many people replying to this thread have personally dealt with "gay" people personally?  I am not talking about debating them or picketing them, but personally sat down with them and discussed their lifestyles with them.

To set my questions into perspective, I believe being gay is a sin issue and against Gods design.  This does not include those who are born with both genders physical parts, which is a whole different discussion.  I have personally dealt with this issue in my immediate family and can see the difference between those who are just spout out scripture and those who have been involved in their lives personally.

I have had several gay friends and, while they are just people, my general view of them is that they seem to be more immature in some ways than straight people.  Maybe it's just the people I know?  I've no idea.  I worked with one woman who was gay but would not admit it; even though her girlfriend worked there too. I don't think ALL gay people are out to fundamentally change our society but there is a militant faction of the gay community that definitely wants to do just that.

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, Behold said:

It much more devious and devilish.... and subversive.

Simply.........its a guise, its a ruse......... its an incredible societal "bait and switch".

Amein.  As written in SCRIPTURE,   society itself is pernicious (GALATIANS),  which means worse than just sin-sick,  but means seeking to take down everyone around them, as many as possible,  even if it were possible the elect.

The spirit of the world ,  the prince of the power of the air,  is a liar, and seeks only to kill, to steal, and to destroy.

The power he has over the world is so great,  and growing ferociously,   or there would not have ever been an issue with bathrooms.

[OneLight]

1 minute ago, MorningGlory said:

I have had several gay friends and, while they are just people, my general view of them is that they seem to be more immature in some ways than straight people.  Maybe it's just the people I know?  I've no idea.  I worked with one woman who was gay but would not admit it; even though her girlfriend worked there too. I don't think ALL gay people are out to fundamentally change our society but there is a militant faction of the gay community that definitely wants to do just that.

I have met gay people who are very mature, in a secular manner, and intelligent.  I have also met some just the opposite.  Yet, just about all of them I have dealt with do suffer from some form mental illness, but not all.  Mostly anxiety, depression, or some other social disorder.

I cannot think of any group that does not have some who are more militant than what the group would like.  When we hear about the militant gays it is because of their actions being caught in the news, yet the vast majority remain quite and live their lives much different than those who are militant. 

[simplejeff]

The widely diverse, various sins are all dealt with mercifully and with righteous judgment in YHWH'S WORD and in HIS DOING.... 

idolatry, lying, stealing, abusing bathroom privileges,  adultery,  and homosexuality, all dealt with by YHWH ....

VOICE

then hear from Your house in heaven the prayers of every man (for his own sins) and the prayers of all Israel (for the sins of the nation) offered up with outstretched hands toward Your earthly house. Forgive or punish each man (whose intentions and heart only You know) proportionate to his behavior,

EXB
·When any of these things [—whatever plague/disaster or disease] happens, ·the [L …and if the…] people will ·become truly sorry [pray about their troubles/affliction and pain/sorrows…]. ·If [L …and] your people spread their hands in prayer toward this ·Temple [L house],

2 Chronicles 6:29
KJ21
what prayer or what supplication soever shall be made by any man or by all Thy people Israel, when every one shall know his own sore and his own grief, and shall spread forth his hands in this house—
ASV
what prayer and supplication soever be made by any man, or by all thy people Israel, who shall know every man his own plague and his own sorrow, and shall spread forth his hands toward this house:
AMP
then whatever prayer or request is made by any man or all of Your people Israel, each knowing his own suffering and his own pain, and stretching out his hands toward this house,
AMPC
Then whatever prayer or supplication any man or all of Your people Israel shall make—each knowing his own affliction and his own sorrow and stretching out his hands toward this house—