Guest Judas Machabeus Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 14 minutes ago, BacKaran said: I'm making a bumper sticker... Take rome out of Catholic and put God back in... Lol, clever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Neighbor said: Well, one might seek a Roman Catholic resource and read what is declared there. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm And for another resource and point of view see Theodore Shoebat at http://shoebat.com/2013/09/21/constantine-create-catholic-church/ From my own perspective there is another issue; that being a universal or catholic church, and there being a RCC or Roman Catholic Church, the two not being the same thing. So as I read I do have to watch for descriptions of a catholic church versus the RCC, otherwise my prejudice ( I believe to be an informed prejudice ) against the popedom* causes me to miss points of excellent information and of interest. * The description borrowed from the writings and sermons of Charles Haddon Spurgeon Thank you. You are very wise to make that distinction. In fact the term "Roman Catholic" was a phrase coined by Anglicans during the reformation meant to be derogatory as they saw themselves as the Catholic Church. But I digress..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2017 We can refer to this if we need to. It is a list of all the Popes beginning with Peter. It even gives a brief detail of anything interesting during their time as a pope, if any. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2017 11 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said: I asked a question in another thread about why a poster thought the Roman Catholic Church was started after a certain period. I was curious because generally it's either the time of the reformation or Constantine. And general with the Constantine assertion comes the assertion that he did it to mix paganism with Chritianity because he had to find jobs for all those out of work pagan priest because Christianity was the state religion now. Since I didn't want to derail that thread I thought I would create a new thread. What proof is there that Constantine created the Roman Catholic Church? The Roman Emperor Constantine was a chosen vessel by JESUS CHRIST, the same way Paul was. An outsider at first, a mighty General, a strategist, a visionary, a believer in Spiritual powers that interfear in the affairs of man. A believer in the guidance of divine powers through omens. A chosen vessel by JESUS CHRIST to be the benefactor of the persecuted Christians to end the Tribulation of the Church, that means for both Believers and leaders. Not in the whole world but in his territory. He changed the Constitution he declared the end to religious prosecution. Everyone had to desided for them selfs what to believe. They do not need to follow in the faith of the Roman Emperor. That means at the beginning Constantine had a lot of idolaters as he supporters and his counselors. who to show solidarity with their Emperor, eventually some of them converted to Christianity. Regardless of the depth of their faith of the early converters, their children were brought up in the Christian faith. Constantine move the capital of the Roman Empire, to what is today Instabul. Constantine came out of Idolatry, himself believed and made only JESUS CHRIST the power that holds together his Kingdom, the blessor of his Roman Empire. Constantine did not prosecute Idolaters, which were the back bone of his Army and his Empire. He ended religious prosecution, not just for Christians but for everyone. But he was and especially his mother a benefactor of the Christians. Constantine made sure that the Christians do not divide his Empire with their religious quarrels. He brought them together, in Nicosia and commanded them to find common ground, and he oversee himself the process , putting his fear over them to find solutions to their differences. thus the "Nicosia creed". The change in his Empire was gradual, but of course him having been converted to Christianity influence others dicissions to convert. Constantine did not fight idolatry only influence the chance to Christianity. He had nothing to do with the RCC as it involved through centuries. The final schism between the Eastern Christians with their center in Byjantium and the Western Christians center in Rome with their political affiliation came around and before the 10th century. With the division of the Empire, with their own political and religious leaderships. Constantine was not Catholic Christian , neither an Orthodox Christian, he was influenced by his own visions, and by the early Fathers of the Christian faith, no matter what Constantine did not put the Christian faith in a box. He let the Bishops the early Fathers, manage the contact of the worship. First those in Rome, and later those in the Eastern Empire the Fathers of the minor Asia churches as in Paul's epistols, and the churches in the book of Revelation. If you can get it , when his base was in Rome he was surrounded by the Latin languish only, all the affairs were in the Latin languish. When he moved to Byzantium , he was influenced by the Greek language. Latin first , and Greek as the honor languish. Eventually Through the centuries Greek became the predominant language as the Byzantium Emperors lean towards the Greek language thus creating an Empire distinguishable from the west Empire and putting all hopes of having one united Empire to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, Spock said: We can refer to this if we need to. It is a list of all the Popes beginning with Peter. It even gives a brief detail of anything interesting during their time as a pope, if any. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes Peter was never a Pope, as within the meaning of having a Christian Roman Empire and Peter as the head of all other bishops in the Empire including the other apostles. This is just stories to compliment. Peter never declare himself anything but a servant willing to die for Jesus Christ. After his death people as usual bewtified the martyrs of the faith, to their advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, Yowm said: Source for all that? Of course from the pure recordings of independent historians of that time, and from the results of the Constantine influence on the Christian faith. Do not expect Constantine to be and act like Paul, everyone is chosen fo a different proposed. Not all parts of the body are the same. or have the same faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 36 minutes ago, Spock said: We can refer to this if we need to. It is a list of all the Popes beginning with Peter. It even gives a brief detail of anything interesting during their time as a pope, if any. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes That's only one list of Popes... from/for the RCC; there are others by different denominations. That's what makes tracking this type of history so difficult... there are different perspectives to take into account. Constantine's biography is obscured and remains so in most of the personal details of his life and role as Emperor... we're simply left to guessing as to the reasons for many of his decisions. Constantine showed some remarkable traits as Emperor and political savvy. He worked hard at shaping the Empire in new ways, one of which was his desire for social reform... that part is clear. His making Christianity legal just seems to be part of that endeavor. He saw that Christians make for good citizens as their doctrines and dogmas stated and it's adherents followed. This religion produced a type of people that the "old" religions could not... and he appreciated that about Christianity. We know that he personally took a hand in some of the religious matters concerning how/who it was run (by), but what he exactly did doesn't seem to be recorded for us. Probably because he gave the Church some level of autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2017 19 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Peter was never a Pope, as within the meaning of having a Christian Roman Empire and Peter as the head of all other bishops in the Empire including the other apostles. This is just stories to compliment. Peter never declare himself anything but a servant willing to die for Jesus Christ. After his death people as usual bewtified the martyrs of the faith, to their advantage. I agree with you, but I'm pretty sure in saying the RCC considers him pope number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 41 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: The Roman Emperor Constantine was a chosen vessel by JESUS CHRIST, the same way Paul was. An outsider at first, a mighty General, a strategist, a visionary, a believer in Spiritual powers that interfear in the affairs of man. A believer in the guidance of divine powers through omens. A chosen vessel by JESUS CHRIST to be the benefactor of the persecuted Christians to end the Tribulation of the Church, that means for both Believers and leaders. Not in the whole world but in his territory. He changed the Constitution he declared the end to religious prosecution. Everyone had to desided for them selfs what to believe. They do not need to follow in the faith of the Roman Emperor. That means at the beginning Constantine had a lot of idolaters as he supporters and his counselors. who to show solidarity with their Emperor, eventually some of them converted to Christianity. Regardless of the depth of their faith of the early converters, their children were brought up in the Christian faith. Constantine move the capital of the Roman Empire, to what is today Instabul. Constantine came out of Idolatry, himself believed and made only JESUS CHRIST the power that holds together his Kingdom, the blessor of his Roman Empire. Constantine did not prosecute Idolaters, which were the back bone of his Army and his Empire. He ended religious prosecution, not just for Christians but for everyone. But he was and especially his mother a benefactor of the Christians. Constantine made sure that the Christians do not divide his Empire with their religious quarrels. He brought them together, in Nicosia and commanded them to find common ground, and he oversee himself the process , putting his fear over them to find solutions to their differences. thus the "Nicosia creed". The change in his Empire was gradual, but of course him having been converted to Christianity influence others dicissions to convert. Constantine did not fight idolatry only influence the chance to Christianity. He had nothing to do with the RCC as it involved through centuries. The final schism between the Eastern Christians with their center in Byjantium and the Western Christians center in Rome with their political affiliation came around and before the 10th century. With the division of the Empire, with their own political and religious leaderships. Constantine was not Catholic Christian , neither an Orthodox Christian, he was influenced by his own visions, and by the early Fathers of the Christian faith, no matter what Constantine did not put the Christian faith in a box. He let the Bishops the early Fathers, manage the contact of the worship. First those in Rome, and later those in the Eastern Empire the Fathers of the minor Asia churches as in Paul's epistols, and the churches in the book of Revelation. If you can get it , when his base was in Rome he was surrounded by the Latin languish only, all the affairs were in the Latin languish. When he moved to Byzantium , he was influenced by the Greek language. Latin first , and Greek as the honor languish. Eventually Through the centuries Greek became the predominant language as the Byzantium Emperors lean towards the Greek language thus creating an Empire distinguishable from the west Empire and putting all hopes of having one united Empire to rest. That's pretty much my understanding as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Teditis said: . We know that he personally took a hand in some of the religious matters concerning how/who it was run (by), but what he exactly did doesn't seem to be recorded for us. This confuses me........ we know, but it doesn't seem to be recorded?? than how do we know? ----- edit ----- this is post 666 for me Edited April 26, 2017 by Judas Machabeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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