Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, Fidei Defensor said:

No one is preaching another gospel here. Simply the realization that Jesus wanted us all to be one in unity  (John 17:20-23). 

And the true lambs already ARE one in unity .  I have been reading your responses from last year ,  on this post ,  I suggest everyone read them .

SOMETHING is not right fidie .   your goal really is unity and its the wrong kind .   I SUGGEST davida and all go back and read his ealier exhanges with yowm and others .

I SEE ROME all over this .    I see this mindset even in emergent .    AND I aint saying you either ONE , just saying I see the same simliariies . 

Afraid I have to leave on that note .    

[Fidei Defensor]

32 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Basking in the beauty of this .     OH , by grace sister davida aintfalling for it .    and others wont either .

oh basking in the beauty .    Sister here knows its all about JESUs and following the pattern HE taught and the apostels taught .   OH davida , my heart is joyed .

The ecumenism you say people are “falling for,” isn’t what this thread is about. It’s about unity in Christ across denominational lines. 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 minute ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And the true lambs already ARE one in unity .  I have been reading your responses from last year ,  on this post ,  I suggest everyone read them .

SOMETHING is not right fidie .   your goal really is unity and its the wrong kind .   I SUGGEST davida and all go back and read his ealier exhanges with yowm and others .

I SEE ROME all over this .    I see this mindset even in emergent .    AND I aint saying you either ONE , just saying I see the same simliariies . 

Afraid I have to leave on that note .    

Actually most Christians are divided. True lambs? Do you get to decide who is true lambs or not? I urge you to consider the dramatic nature of your statements. 

[Fidei Defensor]

50 minutes ago, Davida said:

There Is no Bible based ecumenical movement imo--- where is it? Who specifically does it include? Many may denominations or persons claim they believe the Bible is the final authority but we can see they DO Not actually believe scripture or follow it, cherry- picking, or claiming Apostle Paul was not speaking by the Holy Spirit are some examples of this. 

I’ve seen Biblical ecumenism, where Christians, Messianic, Catholic, Lutheran, Charismatic, Evangelical ans bwtond come together in Christ and study the Bible and pray together. 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, listener24 said:

There is "bad" ecumenism and "good" ecumenism.

I agree that a lot is bad and I share your concern as well, I definitely don't want to compromise the Truth.

An example that there is good ecumenism is this:

"Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us. "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

Now, consider this: it's ok to make known to our siblings, when they believe obvious lies, that they are wrong.

But there is also division on ridiculous issues as well. Do we need to be divided around "pre-post-past-multi-anti tribulation" issues? When Jesus in the Gospel just asks us to be aware of false prophets, and to speed up his Return with an holy life?

I find a shame being divided on this and I found funny that no one even on this forum completely agree on all the details of the aforementioned issue.

Whoever is hastening the Return of the Lord (2 Peter 3:12, Luke 18:1-8, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:5-13) is doing his job, regardless if his view is pre-post-past-anti-multi-pluri tribulation. (only exception here is for preterism-like doctrines: those doctrines slow down the Return of the Lord by deceiving people in believing that the Lord has already come, which is the most dangerous belief)

I don't find that a "smart" issue to be divided on, so ecumenism in that direction is to be encouraged, when the issues are so hard to have the last word on.

But on issues which are pretty clear (like idolatry), then ecumenism is not a good thing, we should firmly state the Truth on these issues which are so obvious from the Scriptures

 

 

 

 

 

Well said Baruch, 

That has been my point from the first post, there are varying kinds of ecumenism. There are the ecumenical councils like Nicea that was beneficial,, the emergent ecumenism which is corrupt. We should never compromise the Truth (John 14:6, John 6:40, 1 John 4:15, Acts 15:11, Acts 4:10-12). 

My concern is pseudo-ecumenism has given people such a bad taste that they won’t ever want to obey Christ’s desire (John 17:20-23). 

Another ecumenical verse comes from St. Paul, “A Church Divided Over Leaders: I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)17 For Christ did not send me to baptize,but to preach the gospel—not with wisdomand eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.” (1 Corinthians 1:10-17)

And yet churches today claim as those three sects did, “What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ,”(1 Corinthians 1:12); those who follow Peter or Cephas (Roman Catholics), Apollo’s (Eastern Orthodox), Paul’s followers (Protestants), and those they are Christ’s (Fundamentalists). Of course we all followxans believe in Jesus, my point is we divided like Paul demonstrates and yet Paul argues the ecumenical statement: “Is Christ divided?” (1 Corinthians 1:13). 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

10 minutes ago, Davida said:

I'm not compromising the scripture for the sake of some worldly pressure for unity & I don't believe the the Bible teaches that. I don't come in agreement with believers or any denominations that do not accept the full counsel of God given in the scriptures - i.e. the ones whose believes and practices are in direct opposition to the teachings in the Bible. I do not come in agreement with the RC Church  or their practices of idolatry , mary dogma or with their belief in works based salvation & infant baptism. I have yet to hear RC priests preaching the actual Bible in their services, but have heard only their man made Roman Catholic traditions and mary dogma preached. I do not come in agreement with a denomination that holds to anti-Semitic beliefs and replacement theology teachings which substitutes the church receiving the blessings GOD promises Israel. Same with the Churches that ordain women or homosexuals which is contrary to what is taught in the Bible.    

There is nothing about compromising Scripture here. We are fulfilling scripture by achieving the unity Jesus spoke of (John 17:20-24) in Spirit and Truth, “23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” (John 4: 23-24). 

I know Catholics who love Jesus and read the Bible, as well as other denoms. Just because there are those who compromise does not mean all are compromised. I extend a hand of friendship to those in other denominations than my own. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Actually most Christians are divided. True lambs? Do you get to decide who is true lambs or not? I urge you to consider the dramatic nature of your statements. 

The lil church I am with , aint divided .         Why is that .      Cause we all love TRUTH , BIBLE , JESUS , HIS SAYINGS ,  HIS PATTERN , The apostels saying their pattern.

Most faiths are divided ,  and their was a reason for the reformation  .   if folks don't heed and listen ,   we gotta separate out .

This whole move is of the same mindset fidie .     Their is now a big  move and its all about the wrong unity .    And I just wont be a part of it .   but I do pray for many

and the true lambs are gathered in lil flocks some of them .    And they KNOW a false unity when they see it .  SEE the focus today is all about building relationships

but sadly its at the expense of the ultimate relationship .   IF our relationship iS WHOLE hearted to GOD ,   THEN we know who to fellowship and have unity with .

and we reach out the gsople to all ,  we pray for all ,   we forgive those who hate us ,  BUT NO CONFORMING to this false unity .    aint doing it .

their is a phobe word for that too .  I have heard it said ,  Eucaphobia ,  just like they call me homophobia , or musophobia .     Always a label against anyone who wont conform to an agenda and warns out against the error of it .     I wear it with honor .    I mean if not conforming to wrong agendas but rather exposing the error is a phobia or zenophobia , i weaer the badge with honor  .    THEY gonna have unity at all costs ,   but i wont have no part of it .   ITS JESUS only for me and those who love HIM . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

40 minutes ago, Davida said:

I'm not compromising the scripture for the sake of some worldly pressure for unity & I don't believe the the Bible teaches that. I don't come in agreement with believers or any denominations that do not accept the full counsel of God given in the scriptures - i.e. the ones whose believes and practices are in direct opposition to the teachings in the Bible. I do not come in agreement with the RC Church  or their practices of idolatry , mary dogma or with their belief in works based salvation & infant baptism. I have yet to hear RC priests preaching the actual Bible in their services, but have heard only their man made Roman Catholic traditions and mary dogma preached. I do not come in agreement with a denomination that holds to anti-Semitic beliefs and replacement theology teachings which substitutes the church receiving the blessings GOD promises Israel. Same with the Churches that ordain women or homosexuals which is contrary to what is taught in the Bible.    

Read fidies response .   i am telling ya ,  its the wrong unity .  they are and will compromise .    i see this kind of talk all over false pastors , i have seen it and my heart is heavy

my eyes fill with tears ,   but davida its just the days we in .    THEY think this unity is the will of GOD ,   as many also think this world peace and unity is Gods will .

And its all backwards .      I have to depart this thread for now .     I just feel such a heaviness and sadly fidie is only digging in deeper than a tick on a hound in her mindset .  

[Fidei Defensor]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

The lil church I am with , aint divided .         Why is that .      Cause we all love TRUTH , BIBLE , JESUS , HIS SAYINGS ,  HIS PATTERN , The apostels saying their pattern.

Most faiths are divided ,  and their was a reason for the reformation  .   if folks don't heed and listen ,   we gotta separate out .

This whole move is of the same mindset fidie .     Their is now a big  move and its all about the wrong unity .    And I just wont be a part of it .   but I do pray for many

and the true lambs are gathered in lil flocks some of them .    And they KNOW a false unity when they see it .  SEE the focus today is all about building relationships

but sadly its at the expense of the ultimate relationship .   IF our relationship iS WHOLE hearted to GOD ,   THEN we know who to fellowship and have unity with .

and we reach out the gsople to all ,  we pray for all ,   we forgive those who hate us ,  BUT NO CONFORMING to this false unity .    aint doing it .

their is a phobe word for that too .  I have heard it said ,  Eucaphobia ,  just like they call me homophobia , or musophobia .     Always a label against anyone who wont conform to an agenda and warns out against the error of it .     I wear it with honor .    I mean if not conforming to wrong agendas but rather exposing the error is a phobia or zenophobia , i weaer the badge with honor  .    THEY gonna have unity at all costs ,   but i wont have no part of it .   ITS JESUS only for me and those who love HIM . 

“You keep using that word..” False unity isn’t what is advocated here. You may have encountered harmful ecumenism, but I have seen the good form where people embrace Jesus, The Bible, and Truth together despite their denominational backgrounds. 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 minute ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Read fidies response .   i am telling ya ,  its the wrong unity .  they are and will compromise .    i see this kind of talk all over false pastors , i have seen it and my heart is heavy

my eyes fill with tears ,   but davida its just the days we in .    THEY think this unity is the will of GOD ,   as many also think this world peace and unity is Gods will .

And its all backwards .      I have to depart this thread for now .     I just feel such a heaviness and sadly fidie is only digging in deeper than a tick on a hound in her mindset .  

 

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Read fidies response .   i am telling ya ,  its the wrong unity .  they are and will compromise .    i see this kind of talk all over false pastors , i have seen it and my heart is heavy

my eyes fill with tears ,   but davida its just the days we in .    THEY think this unity is the will of GOD ,   as many also think this world peace and unity is Gods will .

And its all backwards .      I have to depart this thread for now .     I just feel such a heaviness and sadly fidie is only digging in deeper than a tick on a hound in her mindset .  

I can see what you write. I stand for Unitas Christus (John 17:20-23). You can keep speakijgcagainst ecumenism, that is your right, but I have seen the positive form of ecumenism.