Where did God come from? - The answer to a frequent question

[eugenelester]

On 07.06.2017 at 11:49 PM, Bonky said:

No.  That doesn't make sense.  Just because we can imagine a concept [infinity/eternity etc] that doesn't imply any scientific value.  We only have the concept of "infinity" because it's the inverse of what we're used to...the finite.  We can speculate that there is a creator being behind the curtain, but we can't imply that because we have the concept of geometrical lines that have no beginning or end.

You do not quite understand me correctly. The fact that we have a mathematical concept of the infinite, allows us to understand the properties of God. And do not ask stupid questions about where He came from. Just like no one puts the question: "where is the beginning of the geometric line?". The question of proof of the existence of God is not considered here, if you are about this.

[Guest]

On 5/28/2017 at 6:51 AM, eugenelester said:

You have every right to your point of view. But I do not agree with her. And I know that I am in the minority with my point of view, even among Christians. Nevertheless, I am sure that my point of view is correct. It is possible to prove the existence of God.

"And I know that I am in the minority with my point of view, even among Christians. Nevertheless, I am sure that my point of view is correct. It is possible to prove the existence of God." 

God has proven himself through creation.Romans 1:2019For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

You dont have to prove Gods existence,he already beat ya to it.

Which btw,  there is wisdom in the multitude of council in accordance with Gods word which is the FINAL authority. We base our opinions from Gods word revealed by the Holy Spirit. 

 

Abide in Christ  

[eugenelester]

12 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

"And I know that I am in the minority with my point of view, even among Christians. Nevertheless, I am sure that my point of view is correct. It is possible to prove the existence of God." 

God has proven himself through creation.Romans 1:2019For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

You dont have to prove Gods existence,he already beat ya to it.

Which btw,  there is wisdom in the multitude of council in accordance with Gods word which is the FINAL authority. We base our opinions from Gods word revealed by the Holy Spirit. 

 

Abide in Christ  

You quote quite correctly. And this quote just says that the existence of God can and must be proved. The problem is that this quote is not enough in itself. This quote does not prove the existence of God. She only says that everything in this world indicates the existence of God, but does not say how everything indicates the existence of God. Have you tried talking to atheists? I tried. And I realized that with this approach, like you and most Christians, Christianity is losing atheists a battle for the minds of people. We must be able to provide rational evidence. And it's not enough to just quote the Bible or say that God exists.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, eugenelester said:

You quote quite correctly. And this quote just says that the existence of God can and must be proved. The problem is that this quote is not enough in itself. This quote does not prove the existence of God. She only says that everything in this world indicates the existence of God, but does not say how everything indicates the existence of God. Have you tried talking to atheists? I tried. And I realized that with this approach, like you and most Christians, Christianity is losing atheists a battle for the minds of people. We must be able to provide rational evidence. And it's not enough to just quote the Bible or say that God exists.

No. It is you that doesnt understand! Romans 1:20 is quite clear.  You are arguing with God and not me. Why cant you see that?

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.   Think on that! Have you been reborn in Christ? Why do you think you need to do more than what God has? The Father draws and not you!

Atheists have denied what God put in them so therefore they have been turned over to a reprobate mind! A reprobate mind cannot understand anything you try to tell them. God isnt losing anyone and that is what this is all about! God is in control.  You are  trying to "reinvent the wheel". God already knows who will come to him and we must allow the Holy Spirit to lead us in what we should say.  Otherwise,your words are just hot air.

43“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me—…

In addition, the human body and the dna strand being read one way for a compilation of data and read the other direction for a whole 'nother set of data (discovered just 3 yrs ago)should be the "icing on the cake" or "overkill" for anyone to come to the conclusion that there is a creator. The spirit draws and not you. We are simply servants to Christ and should be slaves to the scriptures.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

Romans 8:6-10 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Abide in Christ

[Willa]

Exo 3:14  WEB  God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” and he said, “You shall tell the children of Israel this: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”  Exo 3:15  God said moreover to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.

Joh 8:58  Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence,  I AM. ”

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3  All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made. Joh 1:4  In him was life, and the life was the light of men.  Joh 1:14  The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rev 1:8  “I am the Alpha and the Omega, ” says the Lord God,“who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Rev 1:17  When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me, saying, “Don’t be afraid. I am the first and the last,  Rev 1:18  and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades.

We are told about a living Being who simply exists, having no beginning nor end, Who is supreme intelligence, Creator, and Who is Spirit, and has emotions.  He made man much like Himself.  And He was born in a Man to reveal Himself. 

If that is unbelievable, too ridiculous to comprehend, it is because God is greater that our comprehension.  It is too humiliating to many men to just accept that.  Their pride in their own intelligence prohibits it.  So they try to make a god in their own image and limit Him to their own intelligence.  Their pride keeps them from admitting they might be wrong, and if wrong they may have to bow at His feet and confess Him as Lord of the universe.

 

[eugenelester]

On 11.06.2017 at 7:31 PM, Blueyedjewel said:

No. It is you that doesnt understand! Romans 1:20 is quite clear.  You are arguing with God and not me. Why cant you see that?

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.   Think on that! Have you been reborn in Christ? Why do you think you need to do more than what God has? The Father draws and not you!

Atheists have denied what God put in them so therefore they have been turned over to a reprobate mind! A reprobate mind cannot understand anything you try to tell them. God isnt losing anyone and that is what this is all about! God is in control.  You are  trying to "reinvent the wheel". God already knows who will come to him and we must allow the Holy Spirit to lead us in what we should say.  Otherwise,your words are just hot air.

43“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me—…

In addition, the human body and the dna strand being read one way for a compilation of data and read the other direction for a whole 'nother set of data (discovered just 3 yrs ago)should be the "icing on the cake" or "overkill" for anyone to come to the conclusion that there is a creator. The spirit draws and not you. We are simply servants to Christ and should be slaves to the scriptures.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

Romans 8:6-10 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Abide in Christ

Are you God? I think not. Your understanding of individual parts of the Bible is your understanding, but it is not necessarily that it is the opinion of God Himself.
You do not need to make prohibited receptions in the discussions and give your opinion for the opinion of God. I'm discussing with you.
People ask questions. Not all people it is obvious that God exists and even fewer people obviously that the Bible is information from God. We must be able to give all people correct, honest and direct answers to their questions. If we all pointlessly throw up quotes from the Bible, and, not really even thinking about the meaning of these quotes, I'm afraid we very easily lose the war for the minds of people. And already I see how Christianity is losing this war. And he loses not because the enemy is so cunning, but because the Christians themselves do not want to use the mind of Christ given to them!

Edited June 13, 2017 by eugenelester

[eugenelester]

On 11.06.2017 at 9:13 PM, Willa said:

Exo 3:14  WEB  God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” and he said, “You shall tell the children of Israel this: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”  Exo 3:15  God said moreover to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.

Joh 8:58  Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence,  I AM. ”

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3  All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made. Joh 1:4  In him was life, and the life was the light of men.  Joh 1:14  The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rev 1:8  “I am the Alpha and the Omega, ” says the Lord God,“who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Rev 1:17  When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me, saying, “Don’t be afraid. I am the first and the last,  Rev 1:18  and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades.

We are told about a living Being who simply exists, having no beginning nor end, Who is supreme intelligence, Creator, and Who is Spirit, and has emotions.  He made man much like Himself.  And He was born in a Man to reveal Himself. 

If that is unbelievable, too ridiculous to comprehend, it is because God is greater that our comprehension.  It is too humiliating to many men to just accept that.  Their pride in their own intelligence prohibits it.  So they try to make a god in their own image and limit Him to their own intelligence.  Their pride keeps them from admitting they might be wrong, and if wrong they may have to bow at His feet and confess Him as Lord of the universe.

 

Oh, I just, brought a simple analogy, for people who find it hard to understand how God can be without beginning and end.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, eugenelester said:

Are you God? I think not. Your understanding of individual parts of the Bible is your understanding, but it is not necessarily that it is the opinion of God Himself.
You do not need to make prohibited receptions in the discussions and give your opinion for the opinion of God. I'm discussing with you.
People ask questions. Not all people it is obvious that God exists and even fewer people obviously that the Bible is information from God. We must be able to give all people correct, honest and direct answers to their questions. If we all pointlessly throw up quotes from the Bible, and, not really even thinking about the meaning of these quotes, I'm afraid we very easily lose the war for the minds of people. And already I see how Christianity is losing this war. And he loses not because the enemy is so cunning, but because the Christians themselves do not want to use the mind of Christ given to them!

"Are you God? I think not. Your understanding of individual parts of the Bible is your understanding, but it is not necessarily that it is the opinion of God Himself."

Alrighty then

The irony in you talking about "using the mind of Christ" . I chuckled a lil with that one! LOL

The word is God! John 1:1.

I use the scriptures to reason whereas you err in thinking you can do better!

 You cant "one up" the Sovereign LORD.

The real question here is : DO YOU THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN GOD?.. Your words are hot air compared to the word that cuts to the marrow.  The Father draws and certainly not you.  Have you put God is the passengers seat? It sure seems like it!!

1corinth 2: 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Timothy 2:15¹⁵ Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 Romans 1:20 is very basic. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what God is saying. Which btw, it isnt a quote but it is GOD BREATHED SCRIPTURE!

I'll say it again:

>>>>>>>>>>>God isnt losing anything or anyone!!

All those who come to Christ do so because God draws them. You think way too highly of yourself.You work in vain.

"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for
teaching,
for reproof,
for correction,
for training in righteousness;
that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).

What does God say about those who say he doesnt exist?  Again,your point is moot!!! Im beginning to wonder if you ever crack the bible . Are you born again? Why isnt Gods word sufficient for you?  You must be led by the spirit!

 Are you aware that God  turns  atheists over to a reprobate mind?  Do you understand what that means? There is nothing you can say to a person (in addition to Gods word)who has lost the capacity to understand! The SPIRIT DRAWS. God has made their minds dark and CONFUSED. They asked for it because they cast the truth IN THEMSELVES aside. God is the only one who can reverse it . Thats up to God and certainly not you with your worldly reasoning! .

2 Timothy 3:7“Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

READ THIS:

Romans 1:21-32 ²¹For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. ²²Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ²³and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. ²⁴Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. ²⁵They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. ²⁶Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. ²⁷In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. ²⁸Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. ²⁹They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, ³⁰slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; ³¹they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. ³²Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

Abide in Christ

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

 THE SUPREMACY AND SUFFICIENCY OF SCRIPTURE. 

Where is your faith eugenelester?

 Hebrews 11:6 ⁶And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 Romans 8:7 -8⁷The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. So then those that are in the flesh (human reasoning, philosophy, psychology) cannot please God

“Be still, and know that I am God.”

Psalm 46:10

 

Abide in Christ

Edited June 13, 2017 by Guest

[eugenelester]

17 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

"Are you God? I think not. Your understanding of individual parts of the Bible is your understanding, but it is not necessarily that it is the opinion of God Himself."

Alrighty then

The irony in you talking about "using the mind of Christ" . I chuckled a lil with that one! LOL

The word is God! John 1:1.

I use the scriptures to reason whereas you err in thinking you can do better!

 You cant "one up" the Sovereign LORD.

The real question here is : DO YOU THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN GOD?.. Your words are hot air compared to the word that cuts to the marrow.  The Father draws and certainly not you.  Have you put God is the passengers seat? It sure seems like it!!

1corinth 2: 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Timothy 2:15¹⁵ Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 Romans 1:20 is very basic. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what God is saying. Which btw, it isnt a quote but it is GOD BREATHED SCRIPTURE!

I'll say it again:

>>>>>>>>>>>God isnt losing anything or anyone!!

All those who come to Christ do so because God draws them. You think way too highly of yourself.You work in vain.

"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for
teaching,
for reproof,
for correction,
for training in righteousness;
that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).

What does God say about those who say he doesnt exist?  Again,your point is moot!!! Im beginning to wonder if you ever crack the bible . Are you born again? Why isnt Gods word sufficient for you?  You must be led by the spirit!

 Are you aware that God  turns  atheists over to a reprobate mind?  Do you understand what that means? There is nothing you can say to a person (in addition to Gods word)who has lost the capacity to understand! The SPIRIT DRAWS. God has made their minds dark and CONFUSED. They asked for it because they cast the truth IN THEMSELVES aside. God is the only one who can reverse it . Thats up to God and certainly not you with your worldly reasoning! .

2 Timothy 3:7“Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

READ THIS:

Romans 1:21-32 ²¹For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. ²²Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ²³and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. ²⁴Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. ²⁵They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. ²⁶Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. ²⁷In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. ²⁸Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. ²⁹They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, ³⁰slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; ³¹they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. ³²Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

Abide in Christ

 

 

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
...
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we are in full glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Jn.1: 14)
The Word is Jesus Christ. And not the words of the Bible or the Bible itself.

Well, it turns out the apostle Paul did not do the right thing either.
Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing him giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath was made of the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he is not far from every one of us:
28 For in him, we live, and move, and have our being; As certain also of your own poets have.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; But now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; Whereof he hath given assurance to all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
33 So Paul departed from among them.
34 Howbeit certain men clave to him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Why does Paul not quote the Scriptures for the Greeks, as he did for the Jews?

Maybe because for the Greeks the citation of the Hebrew Scriptures simply did not make sense? After all, they did not hear anything about them and did not know.

Why do you again use against me a bad reception, giving your opinion for the opinion of God. How do you know that your interpretation of Scripture and quotations exactly corresponds to what God wanted to say?

God does not lose anyone. I agree. But following your approach - why do anything at all? After all, God does not lose anyone. Why are you evangelizing?

"All those who come to Christ do so because of God draws them." You think way too highly of yourself. You work in vain. "
I can say the same thing with the same success.

"What does God say about those who say he does not exist?" You are born again? "Why is not Gods word sufficient for you? You must be led By the spirit! "
I can ask you the same questions. Do not you think that to call into question the revival of those who disagree with you is a bad tone.

"Are you aware that God turns atheists over to a reprobate mind?" The SPIRIT DRAWS. God Has made their minds dark and CONFUSED. "They asked for the truth.

Depends on God no less than when you evangelize someone else. Why then evangelize at all?

I just the other day read it.