ERRORS of the POST-TRIB. view.

[n2thelight]

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

As the Body of Christ has not as yet reached that unity but is still being `tossed to and fro`, we realise that more work by the Holy Spirit is in progress. This does not disprove the rapture being pre-trib.

Rapturist(most)say that Christ can return at any moment,which is false.

IMO believing in the rapture sets one up for the deception of satan pretending to be Christ.

[n2thelight]

1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi n2thelight,

`God....may send Jesus....whom heaven must receive  until the times of restoration of all things.` (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Marilyn.

Quote

 

Acts 3:20 "And He shall send Jesus Christ, Which before was preached unto you:"

We are talking about the second advent here, when that office of Savior will be filled, and God will send His Son again. But there is a very special time that must come first, when Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels to the earth, for that five month period.

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."

Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. The "restitution of all things" is "Apokatastasis" in the Greek, and means the re-establishment of all things from a state of ruin. All the prophets have talked of this time of the Millennium since this world age begin.

It is written that on the first day of the Millennium age, at Christ's return, every knee shall bow to Christ. Romans 14:11; "For it is written, "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Jesus is quoting here from Isaiah 45:22, 23; "Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." [22] "I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." [23]

This will continue for a thousand years of the Millennium age, then people will again get a little lazy, and God will release Satan again to test the people before the end shall come. There will be no restitution after this thousand years, but only a path way into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14, 15; "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, This is the second death[of the soul]." [14] "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." [15]

The subject is the restitution on the first day of the Millennium, of sensibility and God will turly bring it back. People will worship Christ then.

Acts 3:22 "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, `A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever He shall say unto you."

Peter is reminding them that what he is saying was written long ago, way back in Moses day. Even back in Moses day the Lord spoke of these things. Even of the second advent and the first advent. This is given in Deuteronomy 18:15-19. Moses was a deliverer, and the savior of Israel, and he freed them from Pharaoh after four hundred years of captivity, but that was only a type of what would actually happen when Christ Himself would walk this earth.

It is not strange that Moses would be used here, as the voice for the prophets. The word Moses means "pulled, or saved from the water", in a sense, baptism. We see the promise that was given long ago. God would not leave us in bondage, like the Israelites were freed from their bondage, from the Pharaoh of this world. God provided a way, a path for all those that will take hold of that path to happiness in salvation.

https://www.theseason.org/acts/acts3.htm

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi n2thlight,

I agree with what you said - 

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."

Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. The "restitution of all things" is "Apokatastasis" in the Greek, and means the re-establishment of all things from a state of ruin. All the prophets have talked of this time of the Millennium since this world age begin.

However the millennium is NOT the first area of rulership that the prophets spoke about and that needed restoring.

Marilyn.

[n2thelight]

5 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

However the millennium is NOT the first area of rulership that the prophets spoke about and that needed restoring.

May I ask,what is the first?

 

[enoob57]

4 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Rapturist(most)say that Christ can return at any moment,which is false.

IMO believing in the rapture sets one up for the deception of satan pretending to be Christ.

John 3:31 (KJV)

[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

I would say God's Word says your wrong... Love, Steven

[fixerupper]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi fixerupper,

Pleased to meet you and discuss God`s word. Now I think you must have missed the scripture I included, though you did put it in a quote. Here it is again.

 `For Jacob my servant`s sake, and Israel my ELECT.` (Is. 45: 4)

Jesus is speaking to people of Israel and that is the  `elect` that they would understand. 

Marilyn.
    

You can't use the Old Testament Hebrew word elect/bachiyr, and associate it with the NT word"eklektos."  Other than the Messiah and Moses, the word elect or chosen always meant Israel in the OT.  But that's not the case in the New Testament where the word elect or chosen ALWAYS refer to Christians, and once or twice to Jesus and angels.  NOT ONCE in the New Testament is the word "eklektos" used to describe Jews or Israel.

If Mathew would have recorded Jesus' words using one of these NT words, I would agree with you.  But he didn't.

1445. Hebraios heb-rah'-yos from 
1443; a Hebræan (i.e. Hebrew) or Jew:--Hebrew.

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by fixerupper

[n2thelight]

26 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

John 3:31 (KJV)

[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

I would say God's Word says your wrong... Love, Steven

?

[fixerupper]

28 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

John 3:31 (KJV)

[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

I would say God's Word says your wrong... Love, Steven

That verse says nothing about Christ returning at any moment.  

[enoob57]

4 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Rapturist(most)say that Christ can return at any moment,which is false.

IMO believing in the rapture sets one up for the deception of satan pretending to be Christ.

Your statement

41 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

John 3:31 (KJV)

[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

I would say God's Word says your wrong... Love, Steven

my reply is that the rapture in which Christ only comes to the clouds and returns to heaven with the Church refutes your statement that it is of satan...

13 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

That verse says nothing about Christ returning at any moment.  

my answer to n2... should clarify your misunderstanding of where I am at -and- also the perfect fit of the rapture in and of Scripture's place!

[fixerupper]

Quote

my reply is that the rapture in which Christ only comes to the clouds and returns to heaven with the Church refutes your statement that it is of satan...

Christ removes his elect before he does battle to prevent friendly fire, and he does go through the clouds before touchdown.

This is where the rapture happens...

In Revelation 14. 

The seventh trump sounds here....and within that trumpet occurs the rapture/gathering in Revelation 14.  The seventh trumpet covers a great expanse of scripture going from Revelation 11:15 up the chapter 15.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The gathering happens when the Son of Man returns.  Before setting foot on earth to do battle, he pauses in the clouds of the sky to resurrect the righteous dead AND THEN the angels do the gathering of Christians (Matt. 13:30, 39. Mathew 24:31.)

The rapture and the resurrection is a time of reaping and harvest.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mark 4:28-29 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.

The gathering will take place in the the clouds of the sky (Mt. 24:30; 1 Thess. 4:17).

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Before the rapture Christ first raises the righteous dead.  Here is the resurrection of the dead and the gathering of the living righteous.  We know this event is said to precede the rapture of the living.  A sickle is an instrument of harvest.                            

Revelation 14:14-16 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. 
Mathew 24 mentions the Son of man, the clouds, the angels, and a trumpet. The dead rising first isn't mentioned, and neither is the voice of the archangel.

"'But immediately after the tribulation of those days... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds... And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.'" (from v.29-31)

1 Thes. 4:15-17, mentioned is the Lord, a trumpet, a voice of the archangel, a cloud, and the dead rising first. Angels are not mentioned doing the gathering.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians omits many of these things mentioned in other rapture verses. Mentioned are the twinkling of an eye, the last trump, and the dead are implied to be risen first. No cloud, no angels doing the gathering, and the Lord isn't mentioned either.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

A close look at Mathew 13's wheat and tares and Revelation 14's two harvest reveals that they are almost identical.

So my conclusion is that Revelation 14:14-16 is the resurrection of both the dead in Christ and the living righteous, or the wheat.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And Revelation 14:17-20 is the resurrection of the wicked or the tares.

And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. *And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Notice too that the angel In Rev 14:18 the angel is said to have power over fire. And this is also mentioned in Mathew 13:39-42.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Joel 3:13 13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; For the winepress is full, The vats overflow -- For their wickedness is great."

The tribulation has a purpose.  It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance, and to restore Israel.  The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

Edited June 22, 2017 by fixerupper