There is an old adage

[Neighbor]

"You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

 

(Course one might add the question; who wants to catch flies?)

 

The old adage, or proverb if you wish, was popular among the elders of my youth.

 I never quite caught the context in which it would arise, but I heard or overheard it often enough for it to stick with me even as I visualized it and compared it literally by using ammonia as a third alternative. 

 I did catch a lot of flies with ammonia in a glass. Seems they would drop right in the glass as I raised it up under them. MY efforts resulted in my ending up with a lot of dead flies.

But just who wants a collection dead flies ? Don't know that there is a lot of profit in gathering if it results in death, even of flies.

 

So I go back in my advanced years to think of that old adage; why of course, honey!- as in love, and as in love is long suffering.

Love does not retaliate, it does not respond in kind to slights, nor to serious offenses even. It gives not what it receives, it does not top a slight with a better slight, it does not answer an unkind phrase with a better topper.  It just is, and it is patient. Love is there through good and through bad through attack and through hugs too. Love is.

And God is love. If I am to emulate what is Holy by being holy,  I need not call anyone out as evil, as false, or as inferior in doctrine. I simply need be patient and emulate the love that I receive from what is Holy, God. I need share his word but not enter into vain argument, I need to live His word  in order to be a breathing testimony and give witness of Him.

 In that endeavor I need to take all that is unkind or even evil that comes to me  or at me, and just read of the love my creator has extended to me, me a sinner, perhaps a sinner among sinners, having loved me to Him even as I stand. I have need to share of His love, of His instruction, His precepts, but I have no need to put a moments trust into thinking I need to be some kind of agent of vengeance from God.

I am simply  God's servant doing  what I have faith in is what He desires of His servants. Perhaps I serve best when I serve silently and in love of all of God's creation, and leave the judgements to Him alone. Seems to me even my Lord did not judge, least not  of His own accord, but by the word He was given to share by the Father is judgement.

If even my Lord and savior does not judge, but instead shares a commandment from His Father instead, how crazy pompous and foolish might I be if I pass judgement for God by my own standard or even by my understanding  of God's?

 I urge of myself that I do not make harsh response ever, and that I do not judge nor collect dead men with the poison in a glass, the ammonia, of my  "biblically based" judgements upon them.

May it be instead that the Holy Spirit will give life to those that hear His call to them, and may it be that many will be turned to their repentance from sin against God,  becoming brothers and sisters to  shout praises to God.

John 12:44-50English Standard Version (ESV)

Jesus Came to Save the World

44 And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Neighbor

[hmbld]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Love does not retaliate, it does not respond in kind to slights, nor to serious offenses even. It gives not what it receives, it does not top a slight with a better slight, it does not answer an unkind phrase with a better topper.

While you have worded it much better than I could, this has been on my mind the last several weeks.  "does not respond in kind to slights", while I hope to obtain this love, yet I do respond to slights, sometimes only in my mind before I shut them out, sometimes not.  It is our duty to be kind in all circumstances, yet can I give more than just my duty?  Can I beg for more leading by the Holy Spirit as I don't like my natural responses?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

"You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

 

(Course one might add the question; who wants to catch flies?)

 

The old adage, or proverb if you wish, was popular among the elders of my youth.

 I never quite caught the context in which it would arise, but I heard or overheard it often enough for it to stick with me even as I visualized it and compared it literally by using ammonia as a third alternative. 

 I did catch a lot of flies with ammonia in a glass. Seems they would drop right in the glass as I raised it up under them. MY efforts resulted in my ending up with a lot of dead flies.

But just who wants a collection dead flies ? Don't know that there is a lot of profit in gathering if it results in death, even of flies.

 

So I go back in my advanced years to think of that old adage; why of course, honey!- as in love, and as in love is long suffering.

Love does not retaliate, it does not respond in kind to slights, nor to serious offenses even. It gives not what it receives, it does not top a slight with a better slight, it does not answer an unkind phrase with a better topper.  It just is, and it is patient. Love is there through good and through bad through attack and through hugs too. Love is.

And God is love. If I am to emulate what is Holy by being holy,  I need not call anyone out as evil, as false, or as inferior in doctrine. I simply need be patient and emulate the love that I receive from what is Holy, God. I need share his word but not enter into vain argument, I need to live His word  in order to be a breathing testimony and give witness of Him.

 In that endeavor I need to take all that is unkind or even evil that comes to me  or at me, and just read of the love my creator has extended to me, me a sinner, perhaps a sinner among sinners, having loved me to Him even as I stand. I have need to share of His love, of His instruction, His precepts, but I have no need to put a moments trust into thinking I need to be some kind of agent of vengeance from God.

I am simply  God's servant doing  what I have faith in is what He desires of His servants. Perhaps I serve best when I serve silently and in love of all of God's creation, and leave the judgements to Him alone. Seems to me even my Lord did not judge, least not  of His own accord, but by the word He was given to share by the Father is judgement.

If even my Lord and savior does not judge, but instead shares a commandment from His Father instead, how crazy pompous and foolish might I be if I pass judgement for God by my own standard or even by my understanding  of God's?

 I urge of myself that I do not make harsh response ever, and that I do not judge nor collect dead men with the poison in a glass, the ammonia, of my  "biblically based" judgements upon them.

May it be instead that the Holy Spirit will give life to those that hear His call to them, and may it be that many will be turned to their repentance from sin against God,  becoming brothers and sisters to  shout praises to God.

John 12:44-50English Standard Version (ESV)

Jesus Came to Save the World

44 And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

 

Jesus is as holy as it gets and I recall him calling evil evil . Stating the obvious mind set does not have to start a vain argument. Rather,it shuts it down!

Proverbs 24:25
But to those who rebuke the wicked will be delight, And a good blessing will come upon them.

Proverbs 27:5
Better is open rebuke Than love that is concealed.

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.

Proverbs 29:5
A man who flatters his neighbor Is spreading a net for his steps.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Good one.

There is a Chinese dish called 'Sweet and Sour', I wonder if it is good at catching flies. LOL

lol. It catches me ! hahahahaha. Love sweet and sour

[HisFirst]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

"You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

 

(Course one might add the question; who wants to catch flies?)

 

The old adage, or proverb if you wish, was popular among the elders of my youth.

 I never quite caught the context in which it would arise, but I heard or overheard it often enough for it to stick with me even as I visualized it and compared it literally by using ammonia as a third alternative. 

 I did catch a lot of flies with ammonia in a glass. Seems they would drop right in the glass as I raised it up under them. MY efforts resulted in my ending up with a lot of dead flies.

But just who wants a collection dead flies ? Don't know that there is a lot of profit in gathering if it results in death, even of flies.

 

So I go back in my advanced years to think of that old adage; why of course, honey!- as in love, and as in love is long suffering.

Love does not retaliate, it does not respond in kind to slights, nor to serious offenses even. It gives not what it receives, it does not top a slight with a better slight, it does not answer an unkind phrase with a better topper.  It just is, and it is patient. Love is there through good and through bad through attack and through hugs too. Love is.

And God is love. If I am to emulate what is Holy by being holy,  I need not call anyone out as evil, as false, or as inferior in doctrine. I simply need be patient and emulate the love that I receive from what is Holy, God. I need share his word but not enter into vain argument, I need to live His word  in order to be a breathing testimony and give witness of Him.

 In that endeavor I need to take all that is unkind or even evil that comes to me  or at me, and just read of the love my creator has extended to me, me a sinner, perhaps a sinner among sinners, having loved me to Him even as I stand. I have need to share of His love, of His instruction, His precepts, but I have no need to put a moments trust into thinking I need to be some kind of agent of vengeance from God.

I am simply  God's servant doing  what I have faith in is what He desires of His servants. Perhaps I serve best when I serve silently and in love of all of God's creation, and leave the judgements to Him alone. Seems to me even my Lord did not judge, least not  of His own accord, but by the word He was given to share by the Father is judgement.

If even my Lord and savior does not judge, but instead shares a commandment from His Father instead, how crazy pompous and foolish might I be if I pass judgement for God by my own standard or even by my understanding  of God's?

 I urge of myself that I do not make harsh response ever, and that I do not judge nor collect dead men with the poison in a glass, the ammonia, of my  "biblically based" judgements upon them.

May it be instead that the Holy Spirit will give life to those that hear His call to them, and may it be that many will be turned to their repentance from sin against God,  becoming brothers and sisters to  shout praises to God.

John 12:44-50English Standard Version (ESV)

Jesus Came to Save the World

44 And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

 

Thank you Neighbour,

I needed to read this today

[Neighbor]

On 7/2/2017 at 2:08 PM, Blueyedjewel said:

Jesus is as holy as it gets and I recall him calling evil evil . Stating the obvious mind set does not have to start a vain argument. Rather,it shuts it down!

Proverbs 24:25
But to those who rebuke the wicked will be delight, And a good blessing will come upon them.

Proverbs 27:5
Better is open rebuke Than love that is concealed.

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.

Proverbs 29:5
A man who flatters his neighbor Is spreading a net for his steps.

Hi,

Yes, unfortunately some, including me, and perhaps especially me, can  take those guidances as the good excuse to nourish a sense of self superiority.  Even the apostles were caught doing that,  and they were "rebuked" for it by Jesus. He said to them  not to presume that any of them might be  the greatest among them, but to instead that they should worry themselves about whether they themselves are even saved. I think that is my best clue, to seek the kingdom for myself, more than try to lift myself in comparison to others by chopping down others, so that they stand lower than me in my eyes.

 I have concluded that as for me, it is best that I tend to my own shortfalls, and have confidence that God the Holy Spirit can work the rebuke angle as God the Father sees fit, when He sees fit, for the good purposes as seen by God alone.  God has no need of me to run out ahead and wave my terrible swift tongue against brothers and sisters.

More often than not when I may sink to trying the rebuke game I just provide evidence of  an unkind spirit and low motive within me. And, thats what I see also when I read attacks written by others too so often penned in terse manner, exuding disdain, not any love within at all, and appearing way too often  even on this excellent message board. The attacks are self defeating in that they only declare loudly and crassly of an immaturity and a haughty manner residing in the heart of the hurler of the accusations.

I think strong evidence is to be found that is the case because there is almost never any encouragement uttered in the accusations! They instead are just chops, put downs, the same  game played  so much better by the unsaved in a unbelieving world. Perhaps it is a hangover from before  being born again, a failing or falling back to the old self, the old man, that occurs.  Personally I do not want to be a player in that game. I may fail momentarily, and when I do fail I am  convicted by the Holy Spirit that I have been wrong headed and of unpure heart.

Thanks for the verses! I remain convinced that  I should not be seeking opportunity to rebuke, but instead to fellowship,  to enjoy the company of saints and sinners alike while sharing of my appreciation for the gospel of Jesus, of my Lord God and personal savior.

 I praise God for has awesome mercy upon me,

Neighbor

Edited July 5, 2017 by Neighbor