‘Christian’ Church In America Changes Sunday Service And Leads Congregation In Muslim Ritual Of Praying To Allah

[fixerupper]

3 hours ago, Thallasa said:

Don't let this kind of person get you down .You are casting your pearls ..... Even if I would not agree with you on much of what you have said , you seem to be a  caring sort ,which means you are wasting your energy on those who are the opposite .

Don't worry ,God is listening ,and that's all that matters . 

And God listens to what Christians are taught on TV, radio, and the internet.  I'm sorry if I come across abrasive.  You will only know when it's all over.  

Why is it that Christians believe things when it's often simple scriptures and logic that says otherwise. Like "immediately after the tribulation," etc.  Why is it Christians are bent on literally demonizing their own religion and their own brothers and sisters!  If people can't show me WHERE the Christian Church is found in 2 Thes 2:3c-12 then you guys better take seriously what you're saying!  Christians who call the harlot Rome or "the apostate Church" are traitors to Jesus Christ because I know the harlot is Islam and its jihadist sects, and I know the apostasy of 2 Thes. 2 is an end-time event has Islam written all over it. The Church isn't implied whatsoever.

[Heleadethme]

6 hours ago, fixerupper said:

This isn't splitting hairs, it's the difference between black and white.  It's the difference between the falling away and the evilsinthe passage being attributed to CHRISTIANS and the CHURCH.  In other words, the passage is about the man of sin and his followers, but for some reason, most believers love put themselve and THEIR religion, their Christian's, and their church in the middle of this evil.  They like to say this because they say they ARE NOT part of it because they are the TRUE church, they are true Christians.  They say the ones mentioned in the apostasy of 2 Thes. 2 are the false church, the heretical church, the inclusive church of all the world's religions, that's how Christian build themselves up. 

I know what you're saying but what you describe ISN'T apostasy.  There are different ways the early church dealt with false teachers and false prophets.  False prophets were typically "among the people," they were NOT in the church.  Many of them just followed Peter and Paul around trying to gain a following of their own by 'sheep stealing,' usually for MONEY.  IF they were in the church, they were easily identifyable and thrown out. False teachers who were in the church and NOT preaching DAMNABLE heresy WERE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE CHURCH, but people were admonished to avoid them.

WHERE are we warned that false christ would come from WITHIN THE CHURCH?  Especially in the end-times?  I'm not sure?  A false Christ can simply be an anointed one of another religion, or can also be one that claims he IS christ.  Most people just disregard the fact that many in Islam are expecting jesus to return also.  And Rome???  Rome is not Babylon. Babylon is not Rome.  Rome...it's just NOT found in any verse or passage of bible prophecy.  I keep asking people to show me where ROME is found in prophecy, but nobody ever shows me where!

Just like he tempted Christ, the devil has been tempting the Church from day one.  IF you want to use the word 'idol,' Christians have had their idols since day one.  Jesus has parables about it.  What happened in Babylon was a real APOSTASIA where people were forced into accepting "the national religion."  But you're talking millenia ago.  Today, I just can't believe in a global apostasy resulting in a national religion.  Religion has become divisive as politics making it illogical to believe in a global government and religion.  

"People say the anti-christ is a global dictator coming in peacefully, but the history of the world is that when one country tries to take over another it causes a war.  It's illogical to think one or two men could somehow unite the world politically and religiously."  It's illogical to think a national religion is coming.

The lie that all paths lead to God can be considered apostasy. , but in 2 Thes. 2, it's an END-TIME event.  It's not something that began centuries ago and progressed up to today.  It's the end-time event that brings on the man of sin.  

What makes you think "the secret power of lawlessness;  the lawless one;  whom the Lord Jesus will destroy; counterfeit signs, miracles, and wonders; every sort of evil that deceives those who "are perishing"; who refuse to love the truth and so be saved;  and delight in wickedness; and God sends them powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie! " HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH OR CHRISTIANS!

Why would God send His own Christians powerful delusion?  This passage is talking about Muslims not Christians.  To attribute this to the end-time church say's nothing good about the power of God's Holy Spirit whom He say's He will pour out in the last days!  To teach that this is the kind of thing God's church will support in the last day's is blasphemy.  Why would anybody want to convert to Christ knowing that the church teaches it goes bad, accepts the man of sin, becomes an end-time harlot, and produces the man of sin?  It's self demonization.
 
The only region and religion capable of fulfilling this is Islam.  A one world government and one world religion???  It's time to reconsider what the prophecy experts have been teaching you. 

It is happening in ISIS and the Arab Middle East.

Fixerupper, I don't understand how Islam can be falling away from Christ when they never knew Him to begin with........?  This is not to deny the threat they are posing to western countries, but that is another question.

Son of perdition......who was the first son of perdition?  Judas.......Jesus' inner circle, "church leadership" we could say.  John 17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.  

John 6:70, where Jesus spoke of Judas about to betray Him:  

Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"

Speaking of the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Who is the temple of God?  The church is.   2 Corinthians 6:16  ".....For we are the temple of the living God....." 

(I also happen to believe that is also indicating, prophetically speaking, that he will sit in the physical temple in Jerusalem when it is rebuilt.)

 

 

[fixerupper]

Quote

Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly;
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you. " (Ephesians 4:25-32, emphasis mine)
put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. Be hospitable to one another without complaint. 
But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another. 
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;
From what I have seen here, your attitude stinks and is NOT appropriate. 
You cannot defend your aggression towards others here.

I can defend my agression.  You people can't defend your doctrine and you don't like it.  Many of you react bad too because they don't like it when their beliefs are challenged.

You quote scripture that speaks of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience, yet I'm the one who was condemned for not believing in the Trinity by three people here.  You people take condemning one another like it's nothing, when all along, it's much worse than anything I've said here.  
You quote scripture that speak of  bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander, yet you people have no problem condemning others in the faith, calling the church a harlot, saying the Pope will unite the world's religions and basically blaming all of the end-time evils like those in 2 Thes. 2 to YOURSELVES.  You are condemning your own brothers and sisters and your own religion...and you don't see how those scriptures apply to you! 

It's a serious thing to accuse the Church of something that really is pure evil.

This is the Church and heretical followers of Jesus Christ...

"The secret power of lawlessness;  the lawless one;  whom the Lord Jesus will destroy; counterfeit signs, miracles, and wonders; every sort of evil that deceives those who "are perishing"; who refuse to love the truth and so be saved;  and delight in wickedness; and God sends them powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie!"

I can defend myself and my beliefs.  I want to see you guys show me your evidence.

[fixerupper]

12 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Fixerupper, I don't understand how Islam can be falling away from Christ when they never knew Him to begin with........?  This is not to deny the threat they are posing to western countries, but that is another question.

Son of perdition......who was the first son of perdition?  Judas.......Jesus' inner circle, "church leadership" we could say.  John 17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.  

John 6:70, where Jesus spoke of Judas about to betray Him:  

Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"

Speaking of the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Who is the temple of God?  The church is.   2 Corinthians 6:16  ".....For we are the temple of the living God....." 

(I also happen to believe that is also indicating, prophetically speaking, that he will sit in the physical temple in Jerusalem when it is rebuilt.)

 

 

Read the passage again and notice that from the word 'except' in verse 3c, to the end of verse 12, the church is not implied in any way. In fact the words "but we" in verse 13 prove that Christians (the church) is not part of the apostasy!

The word 'but' is a conjunction that shows distinction and opposition to a previous statement.   It opposes persons to persons or things previously mentioned or thought of.  The distinction in this passage is between the followers of Christ as opposed to the man of sin and his followers.  The church is not implied whatsoever.

2  Thessalonians 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3a  Let no man deceive you by any means:  3b for that day shall not come, 3c except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13  But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Bakers dictionary of theology

Bakers dictionary of theology,
Apostasy
A word of increasing interest found twice in the NT. (Acts 21:21; 2Thes. 2:3 It comes from the Greek apostasia a late form of apostasis, originally to desert a post or station in life. It is used of Plutarch of political revolt and is found in the OT in the sense of revolt against the Lord. (Josh. 22:22) Antiochus Epiphanes enforced an apostasia from Judaism to Hellenism (1 Macc 2:15)

In the AV it is translated "falling away" in relation to the man of sin or antichrist. In this sense the thought is of religious revolt. Cremer states that apostasia is used in the absolute sense of "passing over to unbelief," thus a dissolution of the "union of God subsisting through Christ." Amdt adds rebellion or abandonment in the religious sense. On the nature of apostasy there are lengthy articles in both the JewEnc and the CE developing an extensive doctrine of apostasy.

In the NT. 2 Thes 2:3 is part of a prophetic passage of apocalyptic character. The falling away invites conjecture about whom and from what. The event seems future and thus related to antichrist. The implication is that the apostates will welcome the man of sin. 

[Guest Thallasa]

25 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

And God listens to what Christians are taught on TV, radio, and the internet.  I'm sorry if I come across abrasive.  You will only know when it's all over.  

Why is it that Christians believe things when it's often simple scriptures and logic that says otherwise. Like "immediately after the tribulation," etc.  Why is it Christians are bent on literally demonizing their own religion and their own brothers and sisters!  If people can't show me WHERE the Christian Church is found in 2 Thes 2:3c-12 then you guys better take seriously what you're saying!  Christians who call the harlot Rome or "the apostate Church" are traitors to Jesus Christ because I know the harlot is Islam and its jihadist sects, and I know the apostasy of 2 Thes. 2 is an end-time event has Islam written all over it. The Church isn't implied whatsoever.

I don't think you are in the  least abrasive , but  for me it is neither Rome nor Islam . None of these existed before Jesus .  

[fixerupper]

28 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

I don't think you are in the  least abrasive , but  for me it is neither Rome nor Islam . None of these existed before Jesus .  

Why would an end-time man or kingdom have to have existed before Jesus?

[fixerupper]

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Fixerupper, I don't understand how Islam can be falling away from Christ when they never knew Him to begin with........?  This is not to deny the threat they are posing to western countries, but that is another question.Speaking of the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Who is the temple of God?  The church is.   2 Corinthians 6:16  ".....For we are the temple of the living God....." 

(I also happen to believe that is also indicating, prophetically speaking, that he will sit in the physical temple in Jerusalem when it is rebuilt.)

I would like to confront the verse you've just quoted.  At least you're a bit observant.  On the surface, it would seem you are correct in assuming the man of sin would be a Christian because he, "sitteth in the temple of God." I use to think the same thing.  A Jewish anti-Christ would be a good guess too.

My guess???...This TEMPLE is the Dome of the Rock where Muhammad supposedly ascended to heaven from, and the only piece of ground on planet earth God calls his own.     

The word used for 'God' is the SAME word used for a false god or goddess.  The word used for 'temple' is the same word that’s used for a heathen temple or shrine. I also noticed from the interlinear that the KJV translators also dropped the word ‘the’ in “temple of (the) God.” AND!  The word God/god is used four times in verse 4.  The interlinear shows GOD capitalized twice and twice it is not.  Another major KJV blunder. One more interesting note:

The Greek interlinear uses the word God in verse 4 twice and god twice.  When the word god is NOT capitalized, it shows it like this...n_ Acc Sg m. (noun, accusative case, singular, masculine) That means when god isn't capitalized like in Verse 4, it is better interpreted like this…

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the heathen temple (Dome of the Rock) OF THE god (Allah), shewing himself that he is God.

The word God…

The word God in this verse is theos. The primary meaning of that word is of any god or goddess. It is also used to describe the one true God.  

The word Temple….
The word temple in 2 Thes. 2 is ‘naos’ Strong’s # 3485 and that word is the one used to imply a heathen temple.

1) used of the temple at Jerusalem,
2) any heathen temple or shrine.
This word is also used in the book of Acts to describe the temple that the idol stood in.

Quote

Who is the temple of God?  The church is.   2 Corinthians 6:16  ".....For we are the temple of the living God....." 

Please, don't fall for the line that the temple in 2 Thes. 2 is the church or you as a Christian.  That can easily be proven wrong.  There are times when the word is used literally, and times it's used figuratively.  All indicators lead to the temple in 2 Thes. 2 as a literal SHRINE!

[Heleadethme]

49 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

I would like to confront the verse you've just quoted.  At least you're a bit observant.  On the surface, it would seem you are correct in assuming the man of sin would be a Christian because he, "sitteth in the temple of God." I use to think the same thing.  A jewish anti-Christ would be a good guess too.

My guess???...This TEMPLE is the Dome of the Rock where Muhammad supposedly ascended to heaven from, and the only piece of ground on planet earth God calls his own.     

The word used for 'God' is the SAME word used for a false god or goddess.  The word used for 'temple' is the same word that’s used for a heathen temple or shrine. I also noticed from the interlinear that the KJV translators also dropped the word ‘the’ in “temple of (the) God.” AND!  The word God/god is used four times in verse 4.  The interlinear shows GOD capitalized twice and twice it is not.  Another major KJV blunder. One more interesting note:

The Greek interlinear uses the word God in verse 4 twice and god twice.  Look at the interlinear link.  When the word god is NOT capitalized, it shows it like this...n_ Acc Sg m. (noun, accusative case, singular, masculine) That means when god isn't capitalized like in Verse 4, it is better interpreted like this…

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the heathen temple (Dome of the Rock) OF THE god (Allah), shewing himself that he is God.

The word God…

The word God in this verse is theos. The primary meaning of that word is of any god or goddess. It is also used to describe the one true God.  

The word Temple….
The word temple in 2 Thes. 2 is ‘naos’ Strong’s # 3485 and that word is the one used to imply a heathen temple.

1) used of the temple at Jerusalem,
2) any heathen temple or shrine.
This word is also used in the book of Acts to describe the temple that the idol stood in.

Please, don't fall for the line that the temple in 2 Thes. 2 is the church or you as a Christian.  That can easily be proven wrong.  There are times when the word is used literally, and times it's used figuratively.  All indicators lead to the temple in 2 Thes. 2 as a literal SHRINE!

You still haven't explained what you believe Islam has fallen away from, brother.  How could the "falling away" apply to them?

[fixerupper]

36 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

You still haven't explained what you believe Islam has fallen away from, brother.  How could the "falling away" apply to them?

You are still stuck on the English translation of the word 'apostasia.' The words 'falling away' are a really bad translation of the word.  In Acts 21:21 it's translated 'forsake.'  If you read what Baker's said, it's a revolt and rebellion.  

Speaking about ISIS and the revolution now taking place in the Arab World, Hasan A. Yahya, the Dean of Arab Writers in North America said,
"This article calls for wider scope of protest and revolutions in the Arab countries, otherwise, these revolutions and protests are incomplete and misguided. In his opinion, the revolution may satisfy one country, it does not satisfy all Arabs who aspire for unity, one currency, one economy, and one flag that covers a land with no borders between."

Now let me ask you.  Does the part I highlighted sound familiar?

The Arab Middle-East is currently in the prophesied apostasy.  ISIS has created such instability and such a large political void perfect for the man of sin to enter.  This is what he's waiting for!

ISIS is the Leviathan.  

[fixerupper]

2 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

That is why right after my last reply to "fixerupper", I had to place him/her on ignore; they most likely won't seek any assistance. I'm done attempting to hold discussions with unstable individuals, and as such, have not read any replies by that poster, nor ever will again.

Getting back to topic:

The "interfaith" movement has always seemed to me as an attempt to make everyone's "religion" compatible and the hoped-for result is "one happy family" though compromise (which doevtails into your comment). Scripture tells us that Christ has no "concord with Belial", so I do not see how without veering from the solid foundation of Scripture how they can honestly approve of this.

Unfortunately, this has its' roots in pluralism, where the "only absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth". Everything is considered "true" and from there, people can no longer base their thinking on reason; all logic is rendered null because if all things are "true", then there can be no reasonable reference points. In the case of faith, suddenly 900 billion "ways to heaven" all seem legitimate and no one is supposed to say that any way is the correct one.

Good thing the Lord God didn't check in with "popular opinion" when He set forth Scripture! :lol:

Though I do agree with what you've said, my only argument is that THAT has nothing to do with the religion of the beast.