Pharaseeism, or Sadduceism...what is the greater threat?

[Reinitin]

On 8/10/2017 at 2:26 AM, brakelite said:

C S Lewis in his book Screwtape Letters, described the demon's modus operandi with the following;

“’running about with fire extinguishers whenever there is a flood. Get people to crowd to the side of the boat that is already nearly under. When people are lukewarm and apathetic, get them stirred up about the dangers of enthusiasm and emotion. If they are lazy, talk to them about the hypocrisy of the working community. If they are cruel, warn them against the evils of sentimentality..." In other words, let them hear loudly and repeatedly the warnings they don’t need. 

I have been participating in Christian forums for nearly decades, and have found a common theme running through all forums during that time. By far the most popular debates are the ones touching on themes of works based salvation, as opposed to salvation by grace alone, and inherent in these discussions are the multitudinous warnings against 'legalism'. However, when I look around me at todays churches I see evidence, lots of evidence, that the biggest threat to an individuals salvation is not one of seeking to obey and live up to a certain moral standard, but rather the opposite...believing ones salvation is secure despite rampant worldliness, materialism and selfish pleasure seeking.

Jesus told us to Forgive. Because God Forgives. Forgiveness is obviously good for us so we don't keep carrying the pain or injury or injustice. To forgive is operating in the Spirit we receive from God being in Christ. Or dead desires of the body and mind keeps a count Eye for eye, tooth for a tooth and it is justice which God gave the World . Justice because He is Just. Men dead in trespass and sin as sons of disobedience Need Law for Justice and those how are not in Christ with Christ in them are of the World.

With out Paul's communicating the purposes of God in Christ. We would know it is Christ in us that has made us alive and is helping us know (be one with) God and knowing God is eternal life. In John 17 Jesus prayer the purpose of God for us today " I pray also for all those who believe their message that they be in me, I in them and Them in me. (John 17).

We may not understand Grace and that our Lord was a sacrifice for our sin without Paul's witness. But When Jesus spoke it was with every bit as much authority as when God started life by Speaking "let their be light". Paul had the authority of God and his teaching are surely scripture because Peter witnessed to that fact. But Paul's Scriptures are not "The Word of God" in the same since as Jesus'.

You can not discount Jesus's warning "If you do not forgive neither will my Father in heaven forgive your debts." Because Jesus is the Word of God and everything he spoke will be done by our father in heaven and the Spirit.

Some people teach a lie out of ignorance and some create lies because dead flesh is always disobedient to the Word if God.

Dead flesh loves the justification of disobedience It gets from half of a verse in Ephesians 2.  What Paul really said in Ephesians 2 is;

 "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But[c]God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved (see john 17 the Lords prayed for us that believe Him and His disciples witness of His word's)—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Paul explaining john 17 in Ephesians 2 which proves all those that say Jesus was speaking to Jews as people that do not know the truth), 7 "so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith" (making us alive in Christ and giving us a new nature by Gods Spirit is all God, man in the flesh can not make himself Christ like ie Christian. )"And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Paul Said "There is no condemnation for those who walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh". If you have Gods Spirit you have a new nature that desires to forgive and obey. If you have Gods Spirit you wont fulfill the desires of the flesh, One desire is justice (using my first example) you will want to forgive and Jesus in us will help us forgive. If you don't have Gods Spirit as work in you. God will hold you debts against you and you will not be forgiven. Jesus gives a command like "Forgive" when you receive it, it has as much power in it for you to forgive as our Lords command  "come to me" sent forth the power for Peter to obey and walk on water. Peter wasn't granted all power to walk on water he was granted power by the Spirit to obey by the word going forth from Christ. Soon as Peter reverted back to fleshly thinking instead of walking by faith he sunk.

God puts a right Spirit in us, then we renew our mind in the word to receive our new "Value System" and all our knowledge that exalts its self above our knowledge of God we cast down. Every command Jesus gives we may struggle with like peter did. But when the Spirit of God brings a command of The Lord (or word of the Lord) to our Spirit we are given the power by His spoken Word in this earth to obey. The lies separate people from the power and authority in Christ's Word established on this earth to accomplish all that he sent forth His word to accomplish. Which is, since the beginning a desire for, sons created in his image and made into his likeness "in" Christ Jesus our Lord. Spiritual son's out of earthly flesh.

Side note: if you are enraged because i said some thing you believe is ignorance. Look at yourself and ask is this really Christ in me? Do I believe Paul's Word has made Jesus and the disciples testimony obsolete or did Paul expanded on the purposes of God in Christ? If believing what Paul said leaves you to not believe the testimony of Jesus and His Disciples then Jesus didn't pray you in to Him in John 17. 

So if you are in Sin and the Word of Christ is Brought to you by His Spirit Because it is Christ's Word  the power to obey is provided by "The Spoken word of God" is it a granted power? No it is like walking on water. You see the Lord but sin separates you from him. So you call out to Him, Lord if it is you command me. when He does command you he has provided the power for you to walk in Him soon as we go back to the fleshly mind, you sink. So we keep encouraging one another and praying and calling out to Him till we see Him face to face. 

Before you start trying to label me with some God awful denomination or doctrine. I didn't learn from any man. I was taught by His Word, and faith His Holy Spirit would lead me in all His ways.

Pharisees and Suduccee are both men of the world and of the body and minds of fleshly desire trying to achieve righteousness and demand righteousness and justice. Jesus said "I do not pray for the world but for those you have given me out of the world."

Is there sinless perfection among men? No, but if the sinless perfect one is in you, you will have victory's over sins when you hear, believe and obey.

The people who white knuckle fight they believe we are saved by grace through faith and not by works unless anyone boast are boasting all the time as they attack everyone and anything that might weaken there resolve that they do not have to anything, they do not have to obey one command except believe we do not have to do anything we do not even have to be baptized. It's so hypocritical there whole salvation is based on there resolve in the belief of their doctrine and their defense is usually by a body and mind of disobedient sons.

Not all because some who teach and proclaim this do walk in newness of life and believe and obey as evidence of the good works planned for them, their only hope for glory is being in Christ and Christ in them. They know even their faith may fail them but Jesus won't because when they heard His Word they were given life.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Reinitin
I wrote it on my phone, it was horrid had to edit on the computer.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Reinitin said:

Jesus told us to Forgive. Because God Forgives. Forgive-ness is obviously good for us so we don't keep carrying the pain or injury or injustice. So to forgive is operating in the Spirit we recieve from God through Christ. Our Flesh keeps a count Eye for eye, tooth for a tooth is justice  which God gave the World because he is Just is for men dead in trasspass and sin as sons of disobedience.

With out Pauls communicating the purposes of God in Christ. We would know it is Christ in us that has made us alive and is helping us know (be one with) God and knowing God is eternal life. (John 17).

We may not understand Grace and that our Lord was a sacrafice for our sin without Paul's witness. 

You can not discount Jesus's warning "if you do not forgive neither will my Father in heaven forgive your debts." Because Jesus is the Word of God and everything he spoke will be done by our father in heaven.

Some people teach a Lie out of ignorance and some create lies because dead flesh is always disobedient to the Wird if God.

So dead flesh live the justifucation of disobedience It gets from half of a verse in ephesians 2.  What Paul really said in ephesians 2 is;

2 "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But[c]God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (paul explaining john 17 which proves all those that say Jesus was speaking to jews as liars), 7 "so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith" (making us alive in Christ and guving us a new nature by Gods Spirt is all God, man in the flesh can not make himself christ like. )"And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Paul Said "There is no condimnation for those who walk in the Spirt and not in the flesh". If you have Gods Spirit you have a new nature that desires to forgive and obey. If you have gids Sprit you wont fullfill the desires of the flesh justice (using my first example) you will want to forgive and Jesus in us will help us forgive. If you dont have Gods Spirit as work in you. God will hold you debts against you and you will not be forgiven. We Jesus say something like the command "Forgive" when you receive it has as much power in it fir you to forgive as his command to "come to me" sent forth the power for peter to obey and walk on water.

God puts a right Spirit in us, then we renew our mind in the word to receive our new Value System and all our knowledge that exalt its self above our knowledge of God. every command jesus gives we may struggle but in it is the power to acomplish. the lies seoerate oeople from the power and authority in Christ words established on this earth to accomplish all that he sent them for to acomplish. which is sons created in his image and made into his likeness "in" Christ Jesus our Lord. 

Side note if you are inraged because i said some thing you believe is ignorance. Look at yourself abd ask is this really Christ in me?

Sister its as you said..................JESUS said if your don't forgive men their trespasses against you. FROM THE HEART......................

MY FATHER will N     O     T            forive you.

and here is understanding.    I will use myself as an example.....................all I was , was the upmost wicked thing you all would have ever seen.

I did more sin against God and man...........than most of You ALL  combinded.................YET while as an ENEMEY OF GOD

instead of the death I dserved...........he sent grace to draw me to the SON to FAITH in the SON and HE changed me .

I can tell you all , THAT if we cant forgive others who sin against us..................ITS BEACUSE WE DO NOT KNOW the LOVE OF GOD

NOR WE DO APPRECIATE one bit...........that we were forgiven...........................the prosperity gospel of man has killed many dead.

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, Yowm said:

And Jesus answering said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." And he answered, "Say it, Teacher." "A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon answered, "The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt." And he said to him, "You have judged rightly." Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little." And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
(Luk 7:40-48)
 

Sing it yowm sing it....................cause in the deepest chamber of my heart................I truly know the ONLY GOODNESS I have IS CHRIST .............

But I had better continue in this goodness.................or I too be cut off.    THE GOSPLE IS REAL , GOD IS REAL and JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY to be saved.

But if a man is TRULY and I say TRULY OF HIM................HE LOVES AND DOES JESUS SAYINGS with JOY in his heart.  THE POWER of the SPIRIT is real.

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Sister its as you said..................JESUS said if your don't forgive men their trespasses against you. FROM THE HEART......................

MY FATHER will N     O     T            forive you.

and here is understanding.    I will use myself as an example.....................all I was , was the upmost wicked thing you all would have ever seen.

I did more sin against God and man...........than most of You ALL  combinded.................YET while as an ENEMEY OF GOD

instead of the death I dserved...........he sent grace to draw me to the SON to FAITH in the SON and HE changed me .

I can tell you all , THAT if we cant forgive others who sin against us..................ITS BEACUSE WE DO NOT KNOW the LOVE OF GOD

NOR WE DO APPRECIATE one bit...........that we were forgiven...........................the prosperity gospel of man has killed many dead.

Amen, He does not grant us powers. He grant's us Himself to walk with us and to bring to life a new spirit with in us.

[Reinitin]

6 hours ago, Yowm said:

Not so much when we realize that whatever good works we accomplish it is due to His gracious working in us. All we have to contribute is our resistance to His Will, but even at that He has His ways to overcome that in our life.

THANKS be to the Lord but where does the new life he created in you become who you are?

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Amen, He does not grant us powers. He grant's us Himself to walk with us and to bring to life a new spirit with in us.

OF course that is true , IT IS HE IN US.  but by HIM we do have the POWER to overcome.  plus the gifts of the spirit , however he gives them that is.

its the NEW INNER MAN , WHICH as pual said.................CHRIST NOW LIVES IN ME...................

so , reinitin I have one question I want us all to ponder on.

IF CHRIST truly is IN the believer..............why do so many who claim him NOT WALK as HE DID................by all means its an answer I have long known.

I think you do too.  Another good question is.................IF CHRIST is in US...............and as pual said IF we have NOT the SPIRIT we are NONE OF HIS

so again.............if CHRIST is in us.............why do so many claim gay marriage is LOVE ...................when GOD would never say that

or why are so many going under an all inclusive path and some are saying that GOD is in all religions...........JESUS WOULD NOT DENY HIMSELF as the ONLY WAY

NOR would he be telling other religions........hey I am not the way , BUT GOD is still in YOU ................this POPE and many others lie to the people.

and this can only mean without a doubt.................these leaders and many who walk not as Christ ..............IS BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW HIM AT ALL and are still in darkness.

[frienduff thaylorde]

It don't matter what presidents say , religious leaders say , the common folk, the elites or the lowly say about ya reintin..............sister you KNOW I LOVE YOU.

and yowm and he leadeth me and others.....................WE got one heck of a tribulation coming aginst us in the time to come.

I will sleep as peacefully as I did last night.............FOR IMMANUEL .............GOD IS WITH US........and I fear not a thing man can do to me.  Just remember

forgive all who do you harm , forgive all who persecute or who would even kill or imprison you.   THE LOVE of GOD is...........that we desire no man to perish.

And pual and john were wonderful examples of that love .

Imagine today.   What would you do...........if you were in prison and then a huge earthquake struck.  your doors opened .

but your jailor thought you had fled and was scared so he was going to kill himself.

the sad thing is..........I think most would say ..........just let him do it and when he does we can escape.

BUT this is not what the apostels did.........they LOVED their enemies . SO they yelled out ........DO THY SELF NO HARM for we are still here

and you KNOW WHAT..............the jailor CAME to JESUS................SEE THE REAL LOVE OF GOD DOES DESIRE NONE TO PERISH.

[frienduff thaylorde]

and THIS IS WHY THE LOVE OF GOD HAS ME WARN OUT AGAINST THE DEMON INTERFAITH, CAUSE IT SAVES NONE.

[Sower]

On 8/13/2017 at 3:26 AM, shiloh357 said:

Actually, if you study history, the Pharisees were not strict keepers of the law.  They were keepers of tradition and placed tradition in a higher place of authority than the law.  They had a long list of loopholes that gave them the ability skirt the law while being able to hold up the illusion of keeping the law.  They were anything but law keepers.

I agree that the church is full of false converts.  But we have created a system where it is taboo to question whether someone's profession of faith is genuine or not.   We are expected to take their word for it that they are actual believers.  The hardest people to reach with the Gospel is religious people who think they are just fine and don't need the Gospel.

Too many so-called "Christians" abide in "cultural Christianity.  It is a form of Christianity that is absent of Christ.  It is mostly an observance of the externalities of Christian religious rigmarole.  They are very religious, but they have never actually embraced Christ.  They assent to some of the teachings of Jesus, the ones they don't find offensives, but they reject the authority of Scripture for the most part.   They assent to some of what they see as the more benign teaching of Jesus, but they reject their need for the Gospel and the saving work of Christ.

You gotta get em lost before you can get em saved.

Like shiloh said, the hardest part.    We are all missionaries, in a foreign land, earth. There's plenty lost people within one mile of most anybody here. If only they knew it.

2Co 4:3,4  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If only they knew it.