Catholic beliefs Christian or Not?

[William Putnam]

I do not believe that Catholic beliefs are wrong for two reasons:

1. Catholicism is the only Christian community (with my Orthodox brothers making the same claim, God bless 'em) who can trace their history back to Christ Himself.

[WayneB]

Be careful when you respond "No" to this poll, saints.  The fact of the matter is that a lot of orthodox Protestant theology came directly from the Roman Church.  So it is wrong to simply apply a blanket statement like this.  Roman Catholicism is rife with Biblical contradictions in both doctrine and practice.  But to state that they are not Christian......take heed to yourselves.  We are not in such a position to judge anyone's position before the throne of grace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The poll is flawed. There should be a 4th option and it is "Yes AND No".

Ovedya already pointed it out in his post but y'all seemed to ignore it. The Roman Catholic church is like every other denomination that calls itself Christian. There is a certain amount of "leaven" in the bread. Some Christian denominations have more than others and that should be our focus....finding the leaven and removing it from our midst. There is ONLY One unleavened (sin-free) Bread and His name is Jesus Christ, the Bread of Life!

[William Putnam]

WhySoBlind replied, where I last said (given in green)::

Yet the very Church Christ established survived! And she continues to be the only Church who can trace her doctrines and beliefs to Christ Himself!

Can your church do that?

For which I do not see a reply...............so far.

You last said (in red):

God doesn't just "magically" protect the church from error. He uses GOD CALLED AND APPOINTED ministers who are led by the Word of God, not those elected by "popular vote", to direct the church.

And I replied:

Within about two weeks, we will have an "appointed minister" elected to the chair of Peter, which is not "magic" by any means, but we do believe that the holy Spirit will prevail in choosing the man who would succeed John Paul II.

To which you replied:

LOL. Chair of Peter? Elected? ROFL. Preachers are Called by God, not elected by men. This is ABSURD. So now YOU claim that the Roman Catholic Church is the orginal church? That is not only wrong, but the BIBLE refutes that lie as well. The mother church was actually in JERUSALEM for many decades after Jesus' death.

What is THE CHURCH, sir? Believe it or not, the "Roman Catholic Church" is, not exclusive to herself, that original Church of Christ! You see, that Church, the Church of Rome, is of the Latin/Roman/Western Rite, a subset if you will, of the whole church. Other Rites include the Greek/Bizantine Rites, Chaldean Rites, and other Rites that are "in union with the Holy See" which happened to be headquartered in Rome!

But somehow, I get the feeling that I need not go too much into details here as I get the feeling it is just going to "roll off your back," right, WhySoBlind?

And also, why do I get that funny feeling that your handle is so appropriate?

Rome has spoken, case is closed.

The case is indeed closed, because you just agreed with the Protestant contestation that for the Catholic Church commits heresy by believing it is what the Catholic Church says that goes, and not the Holy Scriptures!

My my, you are so excited!

Calm down, sir, as this is only my third post in this forum! Did I get your dander-up that quickly? If you look reeeeeeeeal carefully now, you will see that the quote from my last post is a "tagline" (or a "sigline") that comes after my signature line, and many tines, it has nothing to do with the subject at hand. But I do suggest you read the text of the original letter written by St. Augustine, noting that what is quoted is a contraction/paraphrase of what he actually wrote. In that letter, you will learn how the Church, from Rome, dealt with a prevailing heresy Augustine has been fighting for several years at the time.

I don't care what one passage of the Catholic Creeds say, all I care about is what I SEE TAKE PLACE in the church, and as well what I have personally observed taking place on CATHOLIC MINISTRY PROGRAMMING.

A nice claim that I would insist upon you documentating, if you can. I have rapidly come to the opinion that you are incapable of doing such a thing, sorry.

On paper, you say one thing, but in practice, AND in ministry, you actually have faith in what you are DOING. Lent, mass, eucharist, infant Baptism, etc, etc! You may not admit to that, but that is what is going on. I know several former Catholics who left that organization and have since come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. All of them will tell you that they never would have gotten saved under the Roman Catholic Church's teachings, and because one cannot get saved through what is taught in the RCC.

Claims, without doumentation, mean nothing, sir. But I do note the usually "firehose" attempt to rant against many of the doctrines you reject.

Please know that I am more then willing to address them for you, but not here. So, please start a new thread on, say, the Eucharist or infant baptism, or any ONE topic at a time.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+

Edited April 6, 2005 by William Putnam

[jc49]

As an ex-roman catholic,born in Italy and raised catholic,in Rome,I can testify that the roman catholic church never,I repeat never taught me anything about Jesus,I mean THE REAL JESUS of the Bible.Oh yes,they made me kiss the clay puppet on the crucifix and they made me eat the wafer god that they worship and they made me totally stupid with rosary repetitions and little holy images of whitewashed so called saints ,not to mention the rolled eyes of the countless statues of macabre rapresentations that they venerate and adore!!!Oh yes they made me go and spill of the dirt of my heart to a pedophile priest hidden in a box called the confessionile in dark and scary buildings that they call churches and they really messed up my youth to the point that unless JESUS saved me I think I would be in a mental institution repeting endless and nonsensical prayers to the statue of a babylonian goddess that they call the virgin mary but as NOTHING to do with Mary the mother of Jesus,but rather with Astarth the QUEEN of HEAVEN of which Jeremiaah has alot to say but not in nice or reassuring terms!!!!

I am disgusted with the catholic church and its clergy,and I cannot thank enough JESUS that came to rescue me with His Gospel and His Spirit!!!

Do I hate the Romaan Catholics? No,not at all,I cannot hate anyone,but I DO HATE that scary religious apparatus that glorifies man and man made doctrines that are far distant from God and HIS GREAT SALVATION offered FREELY to anyone,I repeat ANYONE that would call on HIM and believe HIS BELOVED SON,THE LORD JESUS CHRIST that ,thanks be to GOD is not more on the cross,but HE IS RISEN and ALIVE FOR EVER MORE and at the RIGHT HAND of the FATHER as HIGH PRIEST interceding for ALL HIS BLODD BOUGHT CHILDREN>

Good news,brothers and sisters,WE DON'T NEED PRIESTS,NEITHER NUNS,NEITHER POPES to BE SAVED!!!!

Our Blessed PONTIFEX MAXIMUS JESUS CHRIST haas provided a FREE GLORIOUS ENTRANCE in HIS KINGDOM and in HIS HEAVEN to everyone that BELIEVES in HIM!!! HALLELUJAH!!!

I know that GOD IS POWERFUL,so very powerful that HE goes around to rescue all men and women trapped in sin everywhere,so He will call to Himself the ones that He knows that belong to Him wherever they are..so for THE LORD being trapped in the Catholic Roman cage or in the streets of Sodom is not a problem....in fact being catholic or protestant means NOTHING to HIM....WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN!!!!

I didn't say this,JESUS says this,He says that one MUST BE BORN AGAIN etc...we can read it in the gospel of John,chapter 3.

Your and my name either are written in THE BOOK of THE LAMB or in the roll of Hell!!!

Oh yes,I almost forgot to tell to my Roman Catholic friends that PURGATORY DOESN'T EXIST!!!!so please don't even hope to spend a few thousands years there and then someone on earth paying a priest that sings a mass( an abominable thing indeed) gets you out of there earlier!!! IMPOSSIBLE because PURGATORY doesn't exist!!! it is either HEAVEN or HELL and JESUS CHRIST HAS GOT THE KEYS not PETER neither his so called successors,the POPES that are an association to crime like the mafia!!!!!

In fact Peter,the apostle,the fishrmen,you know who I mean,IS NOT BURIED IN ROME in St.Peters basilica,and Peter never was a Pope,no,in fact JESUS never instituted popes or that kind of babylonian stuff,and Peter in his letters says that JESUS IS THE ROCK,not HIMSELF!!!!

I say to the Roman Catholic Church,STOP THE LIES!!!! STOP THE ABOMINABLE LIES and FALSE DOCTRINES that keep people away from JESUS THE ROCK and keep people in perdition and in danger of HELL FIRE!!!!

STOP THE LIE and STOP adoring men and statues,WORSHIP THE LIVING GOD,THE BLESSED FOR EVER FATHER,SON,HOLY GHOST!!!

Bye

[William Putnam]

As an ex-roman catholic,born in Italy and raised catholic,in Rome,I can testify that the roman catholic church never,I repeat never taught me anything about Jesus,I mean THE REAL JESUS of the Bible.Oh yes,they made me kiss the clay puppet on the crucifix and they made me eat the wafer god that they worship and they made me totally stupid with rosary repetitions and little holy images of whitewashed so called saints ,not to mention the rolled eyes of the countless statues of macabre rapresentations that they venerate and adore!!!Oh yes they made me go and spill of the dirt of my heart to a pedophile priest hidden in a box called the confessionile in dark and scary buildings that they call churches and they really messed up my youth to the point that unless JESUS saved me I think I would be in a mental institution repeting endless and nonsensical prayers to the statue of a babylonian goddess that they call the virgin mary but as NOTHING to do with Mary the mother of Jesus,but rather with Astarth the QUEEN of HEAVEN of which Jeremiaah has alot to say but not in nice or reassuring terms!!!!

I am disgusted with the catholic church and its clergy,and I cannot thank enough JESUS that came to rescue me with His Gospel and His Spirit!!!

Do I hate the Romaan Catholics? No,not at all,I cannot hate anyone,but I DO HATE that scary religious apparatus that glorifies man and man made doctrines that are far distant from God and HIS GREAT SALVATION offered FREELY to anyone,I repeat ANYONE that would call on HIM and believe HIS BELOVED SON,THE LORD JESUS CHRIST that ,thanks be to GOD is not more on the cross,but HE IS RISEN and ALIVE FOR EVER MORE and at the RIGHT HAND of the FATHER as HIGH PRIEST interceding for ALL HIS BLODD BOUGHT CHILDREN>

Good news,brothers and sisters,WE DON'T NEED PRIESTS,NEITHER NUNS,NEITHER POPES to BE SAVED!!!!

Our Blessed PONTIFEX MAXIMUS JESUS CHRIST haas provided a FREE GLORIOUS ENTRANCE in HIS KINGDOM and in HIS HEAVEN to everyone that BELIEVES in HIM!!! HALLELUJAH!!!

I know that GOD IS POWERFUL,so very powerful that HE goes around to rescue all men and women trapped in sin everywhere,so He will call to Himself the ones that He knows that belong to Him wherever they are..so for THE LORD being trapped in the Catholic Roman cage or in the streets of Sodom is not a problem....in fact being catholic or protestant means NOTHING to HIM....WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN!!!!

I didn't say this,JESUS says this,He says that one MUST BE BORN AGAIN etc...we can read it in the gospel of John,chapter 3.

Your and my name either are written in THE BOOK of THE LAMB or in the roll of Hell!!!

Oh yes,I almost forgot to tell to my Roman Catholic friends that PURGATORY DOESN'T EXIST!!!!so please don't even hope to spend a few thousands years there and then someone on earth paying a priest that sings a mass( an abominable thing indeed) gets you out of there earlier!!! IMPOSSIBLE because PURGATORY doesn't exist!!! it is either HEAVEN or HELL and JESUS CHRIST HAS GOT THE KEYS not PETER neither his so called successors,the POPES that are an association to crime like the mafia!!!!!

In fact Peter,the apostle,the fishrmen,you know who I mean,IS NOT BURIED IN ROME in St.Peters basilica,and Peter never was a Pope,no,in fact JESUS never instituted popes or that kind of babylonian stuff,and Peter in his letters says that JESUS IS THE ROCK,not HIMSELF!!!!

I say to the Roman Catholic Church,STOP THE LIES!!!! STOP THE ABOMINABLE LIES and FALSE DOCTRINES that keep people away from JESUS THE ROCK and keep people in perdition and in danger of HELL FIRE!!!!

STOP THE LIE and STOP adoring men and statues,WORSHIP THE LIVING GOD,THE BLESSED FOR EVER FATHER,SON,HOLY GHOST!!!

Bye

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for your testimony, not knowing for sure to whom this is addressed, but I feel my presence here brought it on, which is fine. And by now, you could rightly presume that I totally and completely disagree with you here, having discussed the many, many points you have raised against the Catholic Church. I will not attempt to address them all, but simply wait until they are individually addressed in other threads as they may come about.

For my testimony, click on my handle above to go to my profile, and then click on my web site URL. From there, go to the Catholic apologetics section, and click on "My Story." All are invited to explore all the contents of my site.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+

[Ovedya]

Be careful when you respond "No" to this poll, saints.