Is a divorce unattainable besides unfaithfulness or death of spouse ?

[layhoma]

Even in today's standard in churches when physical abuses are reported in marriages they would intervene by recommending the victim to separate in hopes that restoration may take place to mend the relationship.  But never suggest the possibility of a divorce.

 

Divorce seems like a taboo unless it involves unfaithfulness or the death of a spouse. Anything beyond is like uncharted territory for us Christians.

 

Long story short, it involves the testimony of a female friend.  She got involved back less than  2 years ago with a man she met in her night classes in College. He was a divorcee. Because he knew she was a Christian and he wasn't, he showed his resolve by voluntarily taking up Bible classes and later to become a born again Christian. When the time was ripe, he proposed.  She accepted.  I'm sure you have already spotted a few red flags.

 

Just a few weeks ago, she left him with a few boxes of her belongings, rented a beat up room and is filing for a divorce. She was hiding a lot of shame until she told me all about it recently.

 

I will have to take her words, not only because I've known her for 25 years, but because she is a genuine God fearing woman.  So whatever she confesses it sticks, in my book.

 

Based from her testimony, her husband is not what she thought would be by breaking promises upon promises he made before marriage. There's no point in getting into the nitty gritty details, but based from 4 undeniable facts, this marriage is a sham, for lack of a better word.

 

1. He is driving a wedge between her friends and even her parents. He hates her visiting or contacting her parents by phone. He rejects the idea of helping them out by financial means even though he has high earnings. So much for honouring mom and dad.

 

2. He is a miser.  Even when she requires medical help when she has depression, he refuses to pay for her medical bill.  His reason is it's all in her head.  So much for loving your wife.

 

3. He uses the analogy of having made a bad investment in this marriage.  Always juxtaposing their marriage as a bad investment (yes in monetary value). Whatever that means..

 

4. He publicly and privately demeans and disparage his wife with unfathomable languages in short of physically striking her. He knows not how to build, but quick to accuse.

 

I can't judge this man because I don't know him. More importantly, I can't because I don't want the Lord to judge me.  BUT what I have is spiritual discernment.  I can tell by the fruits of a person by his deeds, that much I can tell you.

 

So back to the initial topic, what would you do if you were in her shoes? She is being emotionally traumatized in the past 18 months.  Their counselor (Pastor) has reached the conclusion that the husband has his heart so hardened that he finds no fault and unwilling to compromise.  In fact, he has made several attempts to threaten her for a divorce just to incite terror and exert control over her. There is no end in sight.  In such an abusive relationship what would you do? Better yet, what would Jesus do?

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by layhoma

[Heleadethme]

Ah, I am sorry for what your friend is going through, this life is not easy........it is full of trouble as Jesus said it would be.  Where He says those who fall on the Rock (Jesus) will be broken........so we are not to be surprised at the painful trial as Peter wrote.  The Lord chastises who He LOVES as sons in order that we may partake of His holiness......and who is without chastisement are not His own.  Whatever we go through in life, we make it our goal to keep following/obeying Jesus and seek to be conformed to His image.......like lumps of clay on the Potter's wheel.  Marriage can be the cross that He lays on our shoulders to carry for Him, for the purpose of crucifying and putting to death our carnal selfish nature........where He says "if you would be my disciple, take up your cross, deny yourself and follow me."  One thing is that we are learning to forgive and love our enemies.......even if they dont' change, God has in mind that we are to change to become like Jesus.  That is the purpose of breaking us when we fall on the Rock......a Rock doesn't change, but we break and get molded to the shape of the Rock.   I understand the shock and disappointment to find oneself in a life they didn't intend to sign up for.........through it all we can learn to trust God knowing He is on the throne and has foreseen all this and gone before us to show the way to victory.  And victory is not in changing our circumstances or spouse.......victory is in how we change and learn to rise above the circumstances with the Help and strength of the Lord.

Fornication is sin........and the bible tells us what fornication is........bedding down with someone outside of marriage.  Only the marriage bed is undefiled.  If God does not recognize divorce except in cases of infidelity........then marriage after divorce without that cause, is sin.  A spouse may separate if needs be.......but must still consider themselves to be married and not available for re-marrying......and have a view to seeking reconciliation (assuming one's life is not in danger).   So it is really more than just a matter of taboo.......it is a matter of not sinning against the Lord and against one's own body.  I pray your friend will re-group in this time of separation, and seek and find the answers and strength she needs in Christ and in His word.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

41 minutes ago, layhoma said:

Even in today's standard in churches when physical abuses are reported in marriages they would intervene by recommending the victim to separate in hopes that restoration may take place to mend the relationship.  But never suggest the possibility of a divorce.

 

Divorce seems like a taboo unless it involves unfaithfulness or the death of a spouse. Anything beyond is like uncharted territory for us Christians.

 

Long story short, it involves the testimony of a female friend.  She got involved back less than  2 years ago with a man she met in her night classes in College.  Because he knew she was a Christian and he wasn't, he showed his resolve by voluntarily taking up Bible classes and later to become a born again Christian. When the time was ripe, he proposed.  She accepted.  I'm sure you have already spotted a few red flags.

 

Just a few weeks ago, she left him with a few boxes of her belongings, rented a beat up room and is filing for a divorce. She was hiding a lot of shame until she told me all about it recently.

 

I will have to take her words, not only because I've known her for 25 years, but because she is a genuine God fearing woman.  So whatever she confesses it sticks, in my book.

 

Based from her testimony, her husband is not what she thought would be by breaking promises upon promises he made before marriage. There's no point in getting into the nitty gritty details, but based from 5 undeniable facts, this marriage is a sham, for lack of a better word.

 

1. He is driving a wedge between her friends and even her parents. He hates her visiting or contacting her parents by phone. He rejects the idea of helping them out by financial means even though he has high earnings. So much for honouring mom and dad.

 

2. He is a miser.  Even when she requires medical help when she has depression, he refuses to pay for her medical bill.  His reason is it's all in her head.  So much for loving your wife.

 

4. He uses the analogy of having made a bad investment in this marriage.  Always juxtaposing their marriage as a bad investment (yes in monetary value). Whatever that means..

 

5. He publicly and privately demeans and disparage his wife with unfathomable languages in short of physically striking her. He knows not how to build, but quick to accuse.

 

I can't judge this man because I don't know him. More importantly, I can't because I don't want the Lord to judge me.  BUT what I have is spiritual discernment.  I can tell by the fruits of a person by his deeds, that much I can tell you.

 

So back to the initial topic, what would you do if you were in her shoes? She is being emotionally traumatized in the past 18 months.  Their counselor (Pastor) has reached the conclusion that the husband has his heart so hardened that he finds no fault and unwilling to compromise.  In fact, he has made several attempts to threaten her for a divorce just to incite terror and exert control over her. There is no end in sight.  In such an abusive relationship what would you do? Better yet, what would Jesus do?

 

 

 

From the biblical persepective and this is the ONLY one we can take, 

a person can leave , separate , but she cannot remarry.  Can NOT.   lest her husband dies or cheat on her.

Paul made it clear when he said TWO things concerning this.  Number one was they could separate but she is to remain single or be reconciled to her husband.

number two is very grave.   SO , if she be married to another man, WHILE her first husband lives, she will be called an adulteress.  THIS lines up IDENTICAL

to what JESUS had said.  Note , JESUS nor paul ever said........but if she crys and feels very sorry , then  accept that as repentance.  No, its so LONG as she is married

to the other man, She WILL be called an adulteress.    You might want to find out specifically a bit more about this.    This lady cannot remarry.

not only that but the one she would remarry would be in adultery too.    It is that serious.  Now she can leave , but must remain single or in time be reconciled

back to her husband.   We should pray that he truly repents of his wrongs , and that marriage can be healed.  

I have a bad feeling about this.    But I have learned to not just trust feelings but to TEST them as well.    Their might be more as to WHY

she is leaving her husband.   You might really want to counsel her .   Another might be involved.  I said MIGHT , because I don't know for sure

For sure all you can do is tell her.   Okay sister, you can separate, but UNDERSTAND you can never remarry lest he die or cheated on you.

You put that in her .  

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Ah, I am sorry for what your friend is going through, this life is not easy........it is full of trouble as Jesus said it would be.  Where He says those who fall on the Rock (Jesus) will be broken........so we are not to be surprised at the painful trial as Peter wrote.  The Lord chastises who He LOVES as sons in order that we may partake of His holiness......and who is without chastisement are not His own.  Whatever we go through in life, we make it our goal to keep following/obeying Jesus and seek to be conformed to His image.......like lumps of clay on the Potter's wheel.  Marriage can be the cross that He lays on our shoulders to carry for Him, for the purpose of crucifying and putting to death our carnal selfish nature........where He says "if you would be my disciple, take up your cross, deny yourself and follow me."  One thing is that we are learning to forgive and love our enemies.......even if they dont' change, God has in mind that we are to change to become like Jesus.  That is the purpose of breaking us when we fall on the Rock......a Rock doesn't change, but we break and get molded to the shape of the Rock.   I understand the shock and disappointment to find oneself in a life they didn't intend to sign up for.........through it all we can learn to trust God knowing He is on the throne and has foreseen all this and gone before us to show the way to victory.  And victory is not in changing our circumstances or spouse.......victory is in how we change and learn to rise above the circumstances with the Help and strength of the Lord.

Fornication is sin........and the bible tells us what fornication is........bedding down with someone outside of marriage.  Only the marriage bed is undefiled.  If God does not recognize divorce except in cases of infidelity........then marriage after divorce without that cause, is sin.  A spouse may separate if needs be.......but must still consider themselves to be married and not available for re-marrying......and have a view to seeking reconciliation (assuming one's life is not in danger).   So it is really more than just a matter of taboo.......it is a matter of not sinning against the Lord and against one's own body.  I pray your friend will re-group in this time of separation, and seek and find the answers and strength she needs in Christ and in His word.

 

Dear SISTER thank you for loving the TRUTH of our LORD and this persons soul as your own.  WE look out for all .

[GandalfTheWise]

3 hours ago, layhoma said:

[edited for size] Even in today's standard in churches when physical abuses are reported in marriages they would intervene by recommending the victim to separate in hopes that restoration may take place to mend the relationship.  But never suggest the possibility of a divorce.  Divorce seems like a taboo unless it involves unfaithfulness or the death of a spouse. Anything beyond is like uncharted territory for us Christians.

Just a few weeks ago, she left him with a few boxes of her belongings, rented a beat up room and is filing for a divorce. She was hiding a lot of shame until she told me all about it recently.

So back to the initial topic, what would you do if you were in her shoes? She is being emotionally traumatized in the past 18 months.  Their counselor (Pastor) has reached the conclusion that the husband has his heart so hardened that he finds no fault and unwilling to compromise.  In fact, he has made several attempts to threaten her for a divorce just to incite terror and exert control over her. There is no end in sight.  In such an abusive relationship what would you do? Better yet, what would Jesus do?

This is a topic that I have many more questions than I do answers.  For me, the deepest question is how closely is marriage (as we practice it in the 21st century U.S.) related to marriage as practiced in 1st century Israel or 1st century Corinth?  To some extent, marriage in the 1st century was somewhat akin to a business relationship between two families where the marriage was arranged.  To some extent, this was a commitment placed upon the couple by their families.  It is interesting that many of Paul's comments about marriage (in I Cor 7) are then followed by comments reflecting some people's condition of being a slave or free before resuming more comments on marriage.  This suggests to me that to some extent Paul had in mind the idea of people being subject to arranged marriages in addition to our idea of marriage as being purely voluntary for love.  In the Gospels, Jesus was speaking to people who were subject to the law of Moses.  I think any interpretation and application of these scriptures should provide some insights as to the similarities to 1st century marriage (to some extent arranged) and 21st century marriage (primarily for "love") as well as the differences.

If the church today took Jesus' and Paul's comments on marriage as seriously as we claim to, many more Christians might remain single and never consider being married or might even consider getting separated so as to focus more totally on service to God.  But in reality, we tend to gloss over the recommendation that being single is better and most of us get married and live a married life.

For me there is the letter of the law which appears to be quite clear about marriage being for life with no remarriage allowed.  However, there is also for me the nagging question of what is the spirit of this law intended to be with marriage as we have implemented it today?  And what is God's intended penalty to be for those who break it?

To be honest, I am torn.  A part of me is that we are doing ourselves in the church a disservice by cheapening marriage to be a thing of convenience and not appropriately honoring those who've been married to decades to our first spouse.  (A friend who is a pastor who conducted my oldest daughter's wedding noted to me that her wedding was somewhat rare in that both sets of parents and all sets of grandparents were all still on their first marriage.  Happily this was true for my second daughter's marriage as well.)   A part of me also does not want to be a pharisee with rock in hand when Jesus says "whoever is without sin cast the first stone." 

 The balancing act between legalism (here are the rules to mindlessly follow because I am a good pharisee) and license (God forgives everything) to walk in Christian liberty as well as follow God's leading for particular life situations can be a challenging one.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

26 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said:

This is a topic that I have many more questions than I do answers.  For me, the deepest question is how closely is marriage (as we practice it in the 21st century U.S.) related to marriage as practiced in 1st century Israel or 1st century Corinth?  To some extent, marriage in the 1st century was somewhat akin to a business relationship between two families where the marriage was arranged.  To some extent, this was a commitment placed upon the couple by their families.  It is interesting that many of Paul's comments about marriage (in I Cor 7) are then followed by comments reflecting some people's condition of being a slave or free before resuming more comments on marriage.  This suggests to me that to some extent Paul had in mind the idea of people being subject to arranged marriages in addition to our idea of marriage as being purely voluntary for love.  In the Gospels, Jesus was speaking to people who were subject to the law of Moses.  I think any interpretation and application of these scriptures should provide some insights as to the similarities to 1st century marriage (to some extent arranged) and 21st century marriage (primarily for "love") as well as the differences.

If the church today took Jesus' and Paul's comments on marriage as seriously as we claim to, many more Christians might remain single and never consider being married or might even consider getting separated so as to focus more totally on service to God.  But in reality, we tend to gloss over the recommendation that being single is better and most of us get married and live a married life.

For me there is the letter of the law which appears to be quite clear about marriage being for life with no remarriage allowed.  However, there is also for me the nagging question of what is the spirit of this law intended to be with marriage as we have implemented it today?  And what is God's intended penalty to be for those who break it?

To be honest, I am torn.  A part of me is that we are doing ourselves in the church a disservice by cheapening marriage to be a thing of convenience and not appropriately honoring those who've been married to decades to our first spouse.  (A friend who is a pastor who conducted my oldest daughter's wedding noted to me that her wedding was somewhat rare in that both sets of parents and all sets of grandparents were all still on their first marriage.  Happily this was true for my second daughter's marriage as well.)   A part of me also does not want to be a pharisee with rock in hand when Jesus says "whoever is without sin cast the first stone." 

 The balancing act between legalism (here are the rules to mindlessly follow because I am a good pharisee) and license (God forgives everything) to walk in Christian liberty as well as follow God's leading for particular life situations can be a challenging one.

 

That sounds like highly complex learning their. 

ME I just keep it REAL SIMPLE.  IF JESUS said it was adultery.  THEN IT IS.  I don't have to UNDERSTAND to OBEY.   perhaps

a more childlike approach will work out far better for you.   And lest you become as small children , you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I don't THINK..............just by grace I OBEY THE ONE WHO KNOWS ALL.  and SPOKE ALL for our good unto HIS GLORY when we obey him.   Man I could sing

all day about loving the TRUTH, their jus is no greater joy.  amen.

[creativemechanic]

49 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

That sounds like highly complex learning their. 

ME I just keep it REAL SIMPLE.  IF JESUS said it was adultery.  THEN IT IS.  I don't have to UNDERSTAND to OBEY.   perhaps

a more childlike approach will work out far better for you.   And lest you become as small children , you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I don't THINK..............just by grace I OBEY THE ONE WHO KNOWS ALL.  and SPOKE ALL for our good unto HIS GLORY when we obey him.   Man I could sing

all day about loving the TRUTH, their jus is no greater joy.  amen.

I agree. When we start asking if it still pllies today because of bla bla bla, were on the same line of thinking of the people who say swex before marriage is ok because we dont need to follow all those rules anymore

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 minutes ago, creativemechanic said:

I agree. When we start asking if it still pllies today because of bla bla bla, were on the same line of thinking of the people who say swex before marriage is ok because we dont need to follow all those rules anymore

And that got the trophy of truth award.  See, the truth is times always do change ,  BUT GOD DONT, NOR what he approves or disapproves of don't change either

no matter how many try and change Gods views to suit their own carnal desires, still GOD DONT CHANGE NOR CAN HE LIE.

For thetime has come that many no longer endure sound doctrine , but change it to suit their own desires and so as they can still  FEEL saved.

But the truth is, if we making GOD into our own image and a God that serves our own desires , contrary to HIS desires.

we work destruction upon our self and the end is the lake of fire.   Cause GOD wont change , HE CANT .   Nor will he ever not call remarriage adultery

no matter how hard satan tries to deiceve us into the well, DID GOD really say that mindset.  

God , his word, truth is relevant for all times.   no matter how the seaons change, no matter how the views of man

GOD his TRUTH will endure forever and will never change.  BUT his TRUTH does change the HEART of the one whom it enters.  AMEN>

[Heleadethme]

Obeying and following Jesus boils down to whether we are looking at this short little life.......or seeking the world to come, eternity.  He said if we love our lives in this world we will lose it, but if we hate our lives in this world, we will save it.  Plant your corn of wheat in the ground to die.....so that it produces a crop, ie, fruitfulness.  Or eat our corn of wheat and enjoy it now.....but no crop.  That is the choice facing each one.

[Heleadethme]

Jesus said to count the cost of following Him......He didn't say it was going to be easy.  So sad these truths aren't preached in the churches any more...people need to be strengthened and encouraged not to faint when trouble comes.