Pelagianism

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

           God does not contradict himself. If he wants everyone saved and he does not give them the means to turn to him then he is going against his own will.

Your are correct in saying God does not contradict himself but you err in making that the basis for your claim that he wants everyone saved.

Let me give you something to consider.

Since God is omniscient and he knows us before we are born ( Jeremiah 1:5) ; why does he allow those to be born that will never be saved?

[Wayne222]

5 minutes ago, Robert William said:

I think we can both agree that God is not going to save all humans.

Wayne, what doe mean when you say"the means"?

If it's limited atonement then it's only for those who God wants saved. Like he pick out before time some and not others. God did not do this. He knew who would come. But anyone can come if they want. It's God will that they come. But he does not force them against there willm

[Wayne222]

1 minute ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Your are correct in saying God does not contradict himself but you err in making that the basis for your claim that he wants everyone saved.

Let me give you something to consider.

Since God is omniscient and he knows us before we are born ( Jeremiah 1:5) ; why does he allow those to be born that will never be saved?

God states he would have all men come to repentance . So that must be his will.

 

[Robert William]

3 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Jesus did die for for all sinners. But you have to place faith in it to benefit.  When Moses had the pole with the shape of a snake made so everyone bitten could look upon it and not die. But they had to look at it. It was made for all of the bitten Israelites.  But if any did not look they would have died.

The Israelites did not receive the free gift of eternal life by looking at a snake on a pole.

Wayne, that's illogical, nobody who's sins have been Atoned for can end up in Hell. Please make up your mind, either Jesus did Atone for the sins of all humans or He didn't.

Salvation is a FREE gift, you can't earn it.

[Wayne222]

1 minute ago, Robert William said:

The Israelites did not receive the free gift of eternal life by looking at a snake on a pole.

Wayne, that's illogical, nobody who's sins have been Atoned for can end up in Hell. Please make up your mind, either Jesus did Atone for the sins of all humans or He didn't.

Salvation is a FREE gift, you can't earn it.

Why would God create some people with no chance to be saved. That's not logical to me. 

[Robert William]

Just now, Wayne222 said:

Why would God create some people with no chance to be saved. That's not logical to me. 

God saves, man does not save himself, neither does the natural man want anything to do with the things of God.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Robert William]

9 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

If it's limited atonement then it's only for those who God wants saved. Like he pick out before time some and not others. God did not do this. He knew who would come. But anyone can come if they want. It's God will that they come. But he does not force them against there willm

That's exactly what God does, He chooses sinners that hate Him and don't want anything to do with the things of God.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Robert William]

13 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Why would God create some people with no chance to be saved. That's not logical to me. 

Wayne, it's called born again, Nicodemus did not receive what Jesus was speaking to him because he was NOT born again.

Joh 3:1  There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2  The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Robert William

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

God states he would have all men come to repentance . So that must be his will.

 

I asked you a question.

20 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

why does he allow those to be born that will never be saved?

Answer this^

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 hour ago, Blueyedjewel said:

It proves that reformed theology is the biblical theology.

Dave Hunt accredits  errently many characteristics to the reformed view thus rendering himself one who cannot debate or even write a book that is based on facts!!

It demonstrates that James White is a better debater.  Did the OJ Simpson trial for murdering his ex-wife prove he was innocent?