Pelagianism

[SavedOnebyGrace]

Excellent table Robert.

We haven't talked about Unconditional versus Conditional Election.  Looking at this from God's viewpoint, the I AM is now.  God sees the past, present, and future as now because He is not bound by the Dimension of Time He created.  So the position of Conditional Election must be true because God sees us in the now and bestows grace upon us as He wishes.  Make sense?

[Robert William]

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I've been an active member of roughly 6 Christian forums.  Worthy, in my opinion, is the best so far that I have found.  But I believe God created me with free will, not some programmed android.  I agree with you on your last post Blueeyedjewel.  It's not just a matter of debating, more importantly, it's a matter of what God's word says.

Agree, but we are ALL born with a sinful nature which makes us enemies and haters of God, we would NEVER embrace the gospel before we are born again, and predestination and election are ONLY reserved for the Elect.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

10 minutes ago, Robert William said:

Agree, but we are ALL born with a sinful nature which makes us enemies and haters of God, we would NEVER embrace the gospel before we are born again, and predestination and election are ONLY reserved for the Elect.

Can you expand on your comment a bit more?  We know predestination and election are NT subjects.  How do you see them relating to free will?

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Can you expand on your comment a bit more?  We know predestination and election are NT subjects.  How do you see them relating to free will?

Because man is depraved regeneration has to precede faith, God Sovereignly chooses, but He is not obligated to save anybody neither does anybody deserve the love of God.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 minute ago, Robert William said:

Because man is depraved regeneration has to precede faith, God Sovereignly chooses, but He is not obligated to save anybody neither does anybody deserve the love of God.

So two people hear the testimony of a 3rd person who is giving his testimony on how God saved him.  One of the two people hears the testimony, is regenerated which leads him to faith in God.  The other one hears the testimony and dismisses it as an interesting story, but is not regenerated by it.  That doesn't mean he won't be regenerated some time in the future, just not now.  God pours out His grace on whom He wills, when He wills.

Make sense?

[Robert William]

26 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Excellent table Robert.

We haven't talked about Unconditional versus Conditional Election.  Looking at this from God's viewpoint, the I AM is now.  God sees the past, present, and future as now because He is not bound by the Dimension of Time He created.  So the position of Conditional Election must be true because God sees us in the now and bestows grace upon us as He wishes.  Make sense?

Negative, scripture does NOT teach salvation by works of man.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 minute ago, Robert William said:

Negative, scripture does NOT teach salvation by works of man.

How did you get salvation by works by what I wrote?

[Robert William]

5 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So two people hear the testimony of a 3rd person who is giving his testimony on how God saved him.  One of the two people hears the testimony, is regenerated which leads him to faith in God.  The other one hears the testimony and dismisses it as an interesting story, but is not regenerated by it.  That doesn't mean he won't be regenerated some time in the future, just not now.  God pours out His grace on whom He wills, when He wills.

Make sense?

You say "God gives Grace (unmerited favor)  on whom He wills" true, but that's only the predestined elect.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Robert William

[Robert William]

3 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

How did you get salvation by works by what I wrote?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are preaching that God sees into the future those who will choose Him and then He gives Grace to that person.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Robert William

[SavedOnebyGrace]

13 minutes ago, Robert William said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are preaching that God sees into the future those who will choose and then He gives Grace to that person.

No, that's not what I'm saying.  Get this notion of God bound by time and space out of your mind.  These are dimensions God created and are not bound by.  We are bound by space and time.  Grace means unmerited favor. 

Ephesians 2:8-10New King James Version (NKJV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

New King James Version (NKJV)

Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
 

Quote

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(1 b.) Ephesians 2:8-10 (taking up and working out the parenthetical “by grace ye are saved” of Ephesians 2:5) form an instructive link of connection between these Epistles and those of the earlier group, especially the Epistles to the Galatians and Romans. (Comp. Philippians 3:9.) In both there is the same doctrine of “Justification by Faith,” the same denial of the merit of good works, the same connection of good works with the grace of God in us. But what is there anxiously and passionately contended for, is here briefly summarised, and calmly assumed as a thing known and allowed. Even the technical phrases—the word “justification,” and the declaration of the nullity of “the Law”—are no longer used.

(8) By grace are ye saved through faith.—Properly, ye have been saved; ye were saved at first, and continue in a state of salvation. In Ephesians 2:5 this thought is introduced parenthetically, naturally and irresistibly suggested by the declaration of the various steps of regeneration in Christ. St. Paul now returns to it and works it out, before passing on, in Ephesians 2:11, to draw out by “wherefore” the conclusion from Ephesians 2:1-7. Remembering how the Epistles were written from dictation, we may be inclined to see in this passage among others, an insertion made by the Apostle, on a revision of that already written.

The two phrases—“justification by faith” and “salvation by grace”—are popularly identified, and, indeed. are substantially identical in meaning. But the latter properly lays stress on a more advanced stage of the process of redemption in Christ. Thus, in Romans 5:9-10 (“having been justified,” “having been reconciled,” “we shall be saved”), salvation is spoken of as following on the completed act of justification (as the release of a prisoner on his pronounced pardon); and it is described, here and elsewhere, as a continuous process—a state continuing till the final judgment. Hence to lay especial stress on salvation accords better with the whole idea of this Epistle—the continuous indwelling in Christ—than to bring out, as in the Epistle to the Romans, the one complete act of justification for His sake. It is remarkable that the expression of the truth corresponds almost verbally with the words of St. Peter at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:11), “We believe that through the grace of God we shall be (properly, we were) saved,” except that here the original shows that the salvation is looked upon as a completed act, like justification. It is also to be noted that the use of the name “Saviour,” applied both to God and to Christ, belongs entirely to the later Epistles. It is used once in this Epistle (Ephesians 5:23) and once in the Epistle to the Philippians (Ephesians 3:20), but no less than ten times in the Pastoral Epistles of St. Paul, and five times in the Second Epistle of St. Peter. The phrase in the text is, as always in this Epistle, theologically exact. Grace is the moving cause of salvation: faith only the instrument by which it is laid hold of.

And that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.—This attribution of all to the gift of God seems to cover the whole idea—both the gift of salvation and the gift of faith to accept it. The former part is enforced by the words “not of works,” the latter by the declaration, “we (and all that is in us) are His workmanship.” The word here rendered “gift” is peculiar to this passage; the word employed in Romans 5:15-16; Romans 6:23, for “free gift” (charisma) having been appropriated (both in the singular and plural) to special “gifts” of grace.