Pelagianism

[Robert William]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Pelagianism, also called Pelagian Heresy, a 5th-century Christian heresy taught by Pelagius and his followers that stressed the essential goodness of human nature and the freedom of the human will. Pelagius was concerned about the slack moral standards among Christians, and he hoped to improve their conduct by his teachings. Rejecting the arguments of those who claimed that they sinned because of human weakness, he insisted that God made human beings free to choose between good and evil and that sin is a voluntary act committed by a person against God’s law. Celestius, a disciple of Pelagius, denied the church’s doctrine of original sin and the necessity of infant Baptism.

Pelagianism was opposed by Augustine, bishop of Hippo, who asserted that human beings could not attain righteousness by their own efforts and were totally dependent upon the grace of God. Condemned by two councils of African bishops in 416, and again at Carthage in 418, Pelagius and Celestius were finally excommunicated in 418; Pelagius’ later fate is unknown.

The controversy, however, was not over. Julian of Eclanum continued to assert the Pelagian view and engaged Augustine in literary polemic until the latter’s death in 430. Julian himself was finally condemned, with the rest of the Pelagian party, at the Council of Ephesus in 431. Another heresy, known as Semi-Pelagianism, flourished in southern Gaul until it was finally condemned at the second Council of Orange in 529.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pelagianism

 

I side with Augustine.:)

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, it isn't.   Pelagianism is founded on the idea that man is not stained with original sin, and thus has no inclination to sin.   That is what Pelagianism is.  Most people who believe in free will  believe in original sin and thus  are not Pelagianism.

You know just enough about theology to be dangerous.

Yes I know that, but Pelagianism also preaches the free will myth as you believe.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Robert William said:

Yes I know that, but Pelagianism also preaches the free will myth as you believe.

Pelagianism is more than free will and most people dont' get their theology from Pelagisus.  He is not the only person who taught free will and so simply believing in free will doesn't mean that someone subscribes to Pelagianism.   You pinning the entire Pelagian view on free will and that is where you are wrong.    Pelagianism encompasses a lot more than that.   For someone to be labeled as Pelagian, they have to subscribe to everything he taught.

[Robert William]

25 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Pelagianism is more than free will and most people dont' get their theology from Pelagisus.  He is not the only person who taught free will and so simply believing in free will doesn't mean that someone subscribes to Pelagianism.   You pinning the entire Pelagian view on free will and that is where you are wrong.    Pelagianism encompasses a lot more than that.   For someone to be labeled as Pelagian, they have to subscribe to everything he taught.

The main point of our discussion is that you say that man can make a free will choice to embrace the gospel, but scripture teaches the opposite.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Also, you need to tear out Ephesians chapter one and Romans chapter eight and nine out of your bible.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Robert William

[Guest shiloh357]

37 minutes ago, Robert William said:

The main point of our discussion is that you say that man can make a free will choice to embrace the gospel, but scripture teaches the opposite.

 

i have not said that.  I am saying that you cannot label everyone a Pelagian for believing in free will.

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

i have not said that.  I am saying that you cannot label everyone a Pelagian for believing in free will.

Yes I can.:)

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Robert William said:

Yes I can.:)

Well, you can, but you can't do it with any credibility given that you really don't understand the theology you are espousing.  

[Robert William]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

Well, you can, but you can't do it with any credibility given that you really don't understand the theology you are espousing.  

I have a very good understanding of the topic, I have been studying the topic for more than seven years.

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

I have just one question. What do you see the difference between Pelagianism and semi Pelagianism?

I know that they are both heresies, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think the main difference it that Semi-Pelagianism teaches that man in his fallen nature is depraved.

Arminianism teaches the lie of prevenient grace.

[Robert William]

14 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I have just one question. What do you see the difference between Pelagianism and semi Pelagianism?

Semi-Pelagianism is a weaker form of Pelagianism (a heresy derived from Pelagius who lived in the 5th century A.D. and was a teacher in Rome). Semi-Pelagianism (advocated by Cassian at Marseilles, 5th Century) did not deny original sin and its effects upon the human soul and will; but, it taught that God and man cooperate to achieve man's salvation. This cooperation is not by human effort as in keeping the law but rather in the ability of a person to make a free will choice. The semi-Pelagian teaches that man can make the first move toward God by seeking God out of his own free will, and that man can cooperate with God's grace even to the keeping of his faith through human effort. This would mean that God responds to the initial effort of person and that God's grace is not absolutely necessary to maintain faith.

The problem is that this is no longer grace. Grace is the completely unmerited and freely given favor of God upon the sinner; but, if man is the one who first seeks God, then God is responding to the good effort of seeking him. This would mean that God is offering a proper response to the initial effort of man. This is not grace but what is due to the person who chooses to believe in God apart from God's initial effort.

• Semi-Pelagianism says the sinner has the ability to initiate belief in God.
• Semi-Pelagianism says God's grace is a response to man's initial effort.
• Semi-Pelagianism denies predestination.

Semi-Pelagianism was condemned at the Council of Orange in 529.