simplejeff Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Who me said: Yes God has given 'Man' the intelligence to investigate creation and as one shristian scientist say, 'think Gods thoughts after him!' But. Ones world view can prevent one from useing ones intelligence to the fullest effect asa the article I quoted at the top of this page goes on to say. The great ancient civilisations made many discoveries but didn't continue to develope them because there world view hindered them in investigating creation. It is the Christian world view that encourages scientific research and explotation of discoveries. So, yes the catholic church is important in the history of science. Just as Christianity is vital to understand how and why science works. No, the catholic church destroyed truth instead of pursuing it, and destroyed people's souls always, historically. Christianity is not vital to how and why science works - well, yes it is, IN THE WORLDLY CARNAL WAY ..... if at all.... How and why (mankind's) science works is wicked and sinful, not wonderful and good - as written in Scripture, man's knowledge and wisdom (thus science etc) is FOOLISHNESS because it LEADS PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 Was this thread started so as to promote catholicism (the enemy of Christ) !? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Who me said: You are the one who is saying that scientific discovery is ungodly and should not be used, yet is using the results of scientific research. A clear case of shooting oneself in the foot. Why do you doubt God's Word ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Who me said: Yes God has given 'Man' the intelligence to investigate creation and as one shristian scientist say, 'think Gods thoughts after him!' But. Ones world view can prevent one from useing ones intelligence to the fullest effect asa the article I quoted at the top of this page goes on to say. The great ancient civilisations made many discoveries but didn't continue to develope them because there world view hindered them in investigating creation. It is the Christian world view that encourages scientific research and explotation of discoveries. So, yes the catholic church is important in the history of science. Just as Christianity is vital to understand how and why science works. Hi Who me, I still believe that it is the person and NOT the system of false beliefs, (Catholic Church) that discovers God`s wisdom. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 On 12 June 2019 at 3:14 PM, simplejeff said: No, the catholic church destroyed truth instead of pursuing it, and destroyed people's souls always, historically. Christianity is not vital to how and why science works - well, yes it is, IN THE WORLDLY CARNAL WAY ..... if at all.... How and why (mankind's) science works is wicked and sinful, not wonderful and good - as written in Scripture, man's knowledge and wisdom (thus science etc) is FOOLISHNESS because it LEADS PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD ....... On three counts you are wrong. 1. there is nothing wrong with us useing our God given intellect to find out how things work. 2. Historically the church preserved learning and supported resaerch. 3. you are hypocritacally saying science is ungodly while using the results of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 17 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Who me, I still believe that it is the person and NOT the system of false beliefs, (Catholic Church) that discovers God`s wisdom. Marilyn. Depends when and what period of time is being tal;ked about. This thread is about the medieval church, not todays church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 On 12 June 2019 at 3:17 PM, simplejeff said: Why do you doubt God's Word ? What evidence do you have that I do, other than your odd understanding of scripture? The bible does not forbid scientific investigation, in fact by requiring us to be able to give a reason for our beliefs it encourages it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Who me said: On three counts you are wrong. 1. there is nothing wrong with us useing our God given intellect to find out how things work. 2. Historically the church preserved learning and supported resaerch. 3. you are hypocritacally saying science is ungodly while using the results of science. You are not understanding what Scripture says, nor the power of God. "We" (humans) , ARE NOT USING OUR INTELLECT to find out how things work in line with God's Word at all. No. God's Word says all the knowledge and wisdom OF MAN is opposed to HIM, as it leads people astray continually. Historically and in fact, the "church" you are referring to is pernicious (death dealing), and not Christlike. They always opposed the true Gospel of Jesus, and are the enemy of Jesus, so no so-called "knowledge" they come up with is life-giving , no, it is always death dealing, hypocrisy, and deceptive. (according to God's Word) Naturally, all those living under a false gospel or other worldly deception, approve of the deception and even seem to depend on it and maybe even delight in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, simplejeff said: You are not understanding what Scripture says, nor the power of God. "We" (humans) , ARE NOT USING OUR INTELLECT to find out how things work in line with God's Word at all. No. God's Word says all the knowledge and wisdom OF MAN is opposed to HIM, as it leads people astray continually. Where does it say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him,...... -------------------------------- Concerning the world at large, including priests and pastors and scientists and medical professionals and entertainment etc etc in contrast with the Ekklesia born of he Father from heaven according to all Scripture: 1 John 5:19 Study Bible Concluding Remarks …18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning; the One who was born of God protects him, and the evil one cannot touch him. 19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.… Berean Study Bible · Download =========================================== concerning the source of Scripture: Galatians 1:11-12 New International Version (NIV) Paul Called by God 11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. ========================================== concerning the source of true wisdom (not like the world's as noted below this) : Ecclesiastes 9:16 Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard. 1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. ==================================== concerning man's wisdom and knowledge (of the world/ science/ finance/ government/ medical/ etc etc ) Study Bible Worldly Wisdom 18Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” 20And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”… Berean Study Bible · Download ----------- 1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1 Corinthians 4:6 Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another. Ephesians 4:14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming. James 3:15 Such wisdom does not come from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. ----------------------------- 1 Corinthians 3 New International Version (NIV) The Church and Its Leaders 3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? ------------------------------- Romans 1 God's Wrath on Unrighteousness 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. ---------------------- Study Bible Spiritual Wisdom …13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.… Berean Study Bible · Download ---------------------- John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. ------------------------ Direct comparison of earthly vs from heaven >>> Two Kinds of Wisdom 13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. 17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness. New International Version (NIV) Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. ========================================= There is likely a hundred more Scripture references to illustrate the terrible knowledge and "wisdom" of mankind which is opposed to God and God's Way, vs the true wisdom from above, that the world (both religious and non-religious) does not see and cannot see. (does not even seek ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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