seraph Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 21 Topic Count: 129 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 483 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2005 I apologize in advance if my questions were already asked and answered, if so, please merely refer me to the post if you would (thanks I really shouldn't be clicking on links while studying... I should wait til I have the time )... so here are my questions: Where is the Scriptural basis leading to the belief in praying to the deceased? Where are there verses giving reason to believe the dead hear and are able to intercede in our requests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "Thou shall have no other god befoe Me"...ring a bell? The whole think makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2005 Hey, Fiiosh! thanks for answering. ON the other hand, you guys are ignoring my question that I've asked several times. If you believe it's ok to ask a friend to pray for you; and you believe that for a believer, to be dead is to be with Christ; why is it wrong to ask a friend who is with Christ to pray for you???? Well, since you asked, I'll answer the best I can. 1) Do they hear me? How? 2) It comes too close to the ancestor-worship practices of other peoples for my liking - I know you aren't "worshiping" - but the focus of devotion and trust, to me, is directed more to the departed than to the Lord. I know you don't see it that way, but this is how I and many others see it. 3) I believe prayer is about building a relationship with the Lord, not about the "need" we pray for. (I mean, why does the Lord prefer for us to, "Ask of Me," than for Him to just give us what He knows we need?) 4) There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the Israelites when following the Torah ever implored of the departed to pray to the Lord on their behalf. 5) I believe the "prayers of the saints" the angel held before the Lord were from those of us on Earth. You do know the Lord sees us as His saints, don't you? 6) I believe the "cloud of witnesses" are witnesses, not intercessors. Their time on Earth is done, their fight is finished, their race is over. Why burden them further with the things of this world? When I ask someone here on Earth to pray for me - hey, we're still in this together! I'll understand if you are tired of responding, but I thought I'd attempt the best answer I could to your question. Even if you don't agree, I hope you understand my feelings. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know you guys are all responding "in love" but you're still wrong. You argue against details and miss the spirit of what I say. Yes, we too pray to God directly. Yes, we too believe one must have a relationship with Jesus. No, we do not worship saints. Yes, there are many RCC's who misconstrue Church teaching. I believe the "born again" dead are alive with Christ. I believe they hear me when I talk to them. You don't . I accept that. I will not go to hell if you are right. Get over it. This is only a small part of my prayer life. Can we agree to disagree and move on to something new? Did you ever see the slogan "It's a Jeep thing" Well, you just don't get it, "It's a Catholic thing". Gotta get to work. Enjoy your day, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bukeye2745 Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2005 It's pointless to pray to the dead because they are just that...dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Hey - I just want you to know . . . I will not go to hell if you are right. Get over it. That I'm not making that claim. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2005 Hey - I just want you to know . . . I will not go to hell if you are right. Get over it. That I'm not making that claim. OK? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know. No problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2005 It's pointless to pray to the dead because they are just that...dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bukeye2745 Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2005 Fiosh, Ok. Peace. To me those that aren't "in Christ" are dead. Make sense? Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted April 20, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted April 20, 2005 William Putnam: How do you respond to the idolatry I observed with my own eys on world wide television in which a priest announced, contrary to scripture I might quickly add, to the congregation that "We can now PRAY TO JOHN PAUL II"? Well? "What sayest thou?" I can only answer with another question: What "idolatry"? If I worship the Blessed Virgin Mary as a goddess, you would have a point, but I do not. She is a creature of God, but a most higly favored one by God. As for "praying to John Paul II," I do that as well with my own deceased mother, since I believe she is in heaven, therefore she can pray for me (or usher my prayers to God) from her position in heaven! Pope St. John Paul II, The Great, pray for us! God bless, PAX Bill+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2005 Fiosh, Ok. Peace. To me those that aren't "in Christ" are dead. Make sense? Jen <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gotcha. I can buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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