Pudgenik Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 13 hours ago, Neighbor said: Hi, Okay. Except "I" think that there is no truly new topic to be found here, nor is it more prevalent today that there are advocates of errors than there always have been. Also; I find I must reject the idea of "we think". There is no "we" think. You may pray read and think, and so may I. The Holy Spirit may enlighten each of us to the will of God for each of us individually, but neither of us thinks for the other. Unless this is to be a cult like experience where no one thinks at all. And, I know that is not the case. The word "we" as in we think used to add credibility always bugs me- sorry for my rant against it. I just find it to be a presumption without basis whenever and by whomever it is used. I catch myself doing it to my own shame. I personally believe from my own reading, and my own thinking, and my own prayer, that there are no greater denials of Jesus today, than have been recorded for us within the Bible to think upon and pray over. I agree that there may be spikes in interest in a subject as one poster excites another about one theory of faith or another; but that seems to me to be the ebb and flow of conversations generating yet more thought and prayer, which is a good thing! For it also provides yet another opportunity to read, think, pray, over the word of God, to share the gospel of Jesus, along with the chance to armor up too on the word having read, thought, and prayed over it. Reading by the saints in Christ Jesus with prayer and thinking brings about much good application, as well as the stronger armoring up that enlightens and works sanctification of the saints. Even an iron sharpening iron experience sometimes occurs to the gain of all in Christ Jesus. Excellent! The Holy Spirit teaches individually, that is true. But the Holy Spirit also brings all together in God's Love 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgenik Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 13 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said: Here is a summary of this post for those who don't want to read it all. 1. Some Christians have no clue what things are worth fighting over and what things are not worth fighting over. I think we should have a very clear sense of what things are critical to believe and what things are arguing about the color of the carpet. 2. Some Christians think it is more important to believe the right things than it is to know God well. (Primary symptom of this I observe: "Well, you cannot know God well unless you believe the right things first!") I think that an ever increasing knowledge of the Truth is ultimately a result of knowing God (and His mature people) more and more. There are Calvinists who are convinced that Arminians refuse to believe what the Bible "plainly" says; there are Arminians who are convinced that Calvinists refuse to believe what the Bible "plainly" says. There are Pentecostals who are convinced that Cessationists refuse to believe what the Bible "plainly" says; and vice versa. There are Christians convinced that the Bible teaches that the earth is flat; and those that don't. There are Christians that are convinced that particular musical styles are wrong; and others that are convinced that those very same musical styles are fine. There are some Christians that wholeheartedly believe that all women should have some type of head covering in church; and others who do not. There are some Christians convinced that it is vital that all Christians hold the correct biblical view of the End Times. There are Christians who believe baptism by immersion saying the name of Jesus (not Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is necessary for salvation. There are some Christians who believe that some denominations are in essence satanic. On many points, the determination of "false" doctrine comes down to the opinion of individual Christians, individual congregations, and individual denominations about what the Bible "plainly" teaches. On all of the above points I mention, there are Christians who cannot in good conscience let the above points go and not fight about them. And on pretty much all of those points, there are Christians who point to a few proof texts where the Bible plainly says that they are correct; and then there are other Christians who point to other proof texts that prove that they are completely wrong about it. I'll be completely blunt here. A whole lot of "protecting truth" that I've seen over the years boils down to "I read the Bible correctly and I am very close to being right on all the important things! Therefore anyone who disagrees very much with me is a false prophet, wolf, false teacher, heretic, not-really-a-Christian, or <fill in your favorite disparaging term for a Christian who disagrees with you>. Praise be to God that I am one of His favored ones that holds God's Truth correctly and that I'm one of the few on the narrow path that leads to life." Much of "protecting and proclaiming Truth" that I've seen boils down to childish "I'm right and you're wrong!!" or "I serve God better than you!!" behavior. Frankly, not much different that the "which of us is greatest" argument the disciples liked to have or the "they weren't following us so we forbid them to do anything in your name" attitude the disciples had toward other disciples. Deny the Trinity. I'll come down on it like a (gently padded ) ton of bricks. Question the deity or humanity of Christ. I'll push back. Argue about the color of fabric on the pews, I'll try to point out the stupidity and childishness of doing that. Here's another blunt statement. Most Christians I see spending large amounts of time fighting "false" doctrines really have no sense of priority as to what things are really worth contending for. They have elevated their opinions on way too many issues as being "critical" for contending for the faith. Another point to be blunt on here. Some Christians have made an idol out of "all or nothing" belief. If you do not have the right opinion on everything, then it is impossible to serve God well. Their entire faith in God rests on every single item that they "believe" being correct. If a single part fails, their entire belief in God comes crashing down. It is critical for them to know the answers to every question; how to answer every argument; having to win every argument; why? Because their faith is NOT ultimately in God; their faith is in what they believe about God. The key point in all of this is this. Being a Christian is about being transformed into a new creation who lives life in a way that glorifies God; that righteousness and good works flow naturally from us; that love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, and the like are the characteristics of our life; that we come to know God more and more as we consistently walk with Him. Believing the right things about God ultimately comes from knowing God more and more; not memorizing proof texts and counter proof texts; from closely observing those who truly exhibit fruit of the Spirit in their lives, those whose prayers are answered, who truly minister to those around them; not from those who are strongly opinionated and spend much of their time pointing out "problems" in God's other children. God gave us the Bible to reveal Himself to us. To the extent we search the scriptures to learn more about Him, we are using it well. To the extent we search the scriptures for minutia, hidden spiritual truth, rules and recipes, and ways to win arguments, I think we are missing the point. Brothers and Sisters! Believing the right things about God ultimately comes from knowing God from spending time with Him. Holiness and a changed life does not come from talking about it; it does not come from knowing and following the right rules about what is and what is not sin; it does not come from trying our hardest to be righteous; it comes from God's presence in our life changing and transforming us. Sin does not really decrease in our life because we learn more about what it is and try to avoid it, or because we try harder, exercise our willpower, find accountability partners, or other efforts to mitigate it. That's trying to achieve holiness through our own strength. Sin decreases and righteousness and holiness increases by God's presence in our life increasing. This does not come about from having the correct biblical view on every possible issue that might arise; it comes from knowing God more and more; it comes from consistently spending time walking with God; it comes from consistently spending time with very mature Christians (and not merely outspoken and opinionated ones!!) who know God very well themselves and exhibit a lot of natural spiritual fruit in their life (and not just self-imposed follow-strict-rules behavior). I agree with much you wrote, especially about making things into idols. To me, the bottom line, Love God with all you are, and your neighbor as yourself. And everything else will fall into line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said: My beliefs are basic orthodoxy. I could not delineate them in a thread. I was just trying to pick out the things for me that are a huge red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgenik Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Davida said: Thank you Jade for reaching out. Sometimes it feels like way more trouble then it's worth being here. Trust me I understand your frustration. Yet you can still find flowers in a desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgenik Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 8 hours ago, Justin Adams said: I understand this well. It is also done in the Episcopal Church in the US and Church of England here in the UK. Though the Church of England does not call it mass, just communion. The RCC has fallen into much disfavor due to other denominational influences. Sure they burned people at the stake, and so did Calvin and others. They worry that the pope seems to rub shoulders with our enemies and that the 'vicar of Christ' is a false claim and a false position. I tend to agree. There is much in the RCC doctrine that comes into question in other belief systems, and there are some terrible things said about RC believers. Some of the finest Christians I have known were of the RC persuasion, but they did not necessarily go along with all the tenets of the church. That most every denomination began with some aspects of the RCC is without doubt. However, the breakaway elements believe they are of the 'true church' and other are not. Perspective comes into this quite a bit. In the 'home of the brave and the land of the free' you will find many that despise the RCC. They may even vilify a person that puts forth an RC argument on here. So you will have to take your chances. Pax Christi I'm not afraid. I hear it often here. When I look at the Protestant Churches, I see them as my brothers in Christ. One of the areas I feel they have not been preaching much on, and I think it is Very important, is the Blood of the Lamb. It is rare now to hear a sermon on this. Many sermons are all focused on the rapture, with much anticipation to leave the planet. My personal opinion is, this rapture teaching is taking away time that should be spent on teaching the words of Jesus Himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgenik Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 hours ago, LadyKay said: Sometimes I get so stressed out about this place I have to leave for weeks or maybe even months. It shouldn't be that way but it is. That is really said. You know I like hearing your words. ❤ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgenik Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 hours ago, LadyKay said: Oh you shouldn't ask that. Oh dear..... I love to too, sister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgenik Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 616 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 155 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said: The Gospel of Christ is so simple a child can understand it. What did the Bereans do in response to Paul's teachings? They went home and studied the Old Testament to see if Paul was telling them the truth. They didn't rely on some organization like the Magisterium to tell them what scripture said or meant. I saw you say this earlier and I still cannot believe I saw someone say something so calloused about people who died because of their beliefs: Yes, the RCC burned thousands at the stake. And most of those people were tortured for long periods of time before they were killed. Their suffering and death is immaterial? Because that is exactly what your statement means. Did the RCC do them a favor by killing these people who didn't believe the "right" way? The RCC has done some really stupid things. But on the other hand, God has done many miracles through those Catholics to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said: All three have the same top trait. They all rely on an outside "prophet" and outside writings that they adhere to, instead of the Bible. But they do not know a different Jesus Christ like the JW's or Mormons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted October 19, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Pudgenik said: The RCC has done some really stupid things. But on the other hand, God has done many miracles through those Catholics to. Re the system, any miracles there/ are Only deceptive ones - to promote what is wrong, to convince people that what is wrong is okay ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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