ytLiJC Posted November 2, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 357 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 65 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2017 On 10/24/2017 at 5:24 AM, Bro.Tan said: Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure? Again people are quick to run to the Apostle Paul’s writing, grabbing a couple of verse that preachers have grossly mistaught. And they have built a false teaching regarding “once saved always saved”. Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved. Thus the teaching “once saved always saved”. Then you asked them what are you saved from? Or how did you obtain your salvation? And most cannot answer these questions. Some even say that sense I have been “saved” I am living a sinless life. (1John:1:10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. According to bible you can’t be living a sinless life, because if you make such a statement, you just lied. Paul said in (1Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means. Paul said in (1Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race everybody is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep God's law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation. Don’t allow yourself to be deceived into believing that once you believe in the Lord that your work is finished, it has just started. Paul say in (Heb. 10:35-39) (v.35) Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (v.36) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. People you must have patience when dealing with the word of God. And you must do the will of God, which is the keeping of his law, if you expect to receive the promise, which is eternal life in the kingdom of God, which will be established on this earth. NO ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN. And it’s strange that most people who consider themselves “once saved always saved” are the same ones that tell you that God’s commandments were nailed to the cross. (v.37) FOR YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY. (v.38) NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. What does Paul mean by if any man draw back? You mean that once you are quote “saved” that you can draw back. According to the apostle Paul you can. Like I said earlier that just as you choose by your own free will to start serving the lord, you can by that same free will stop serving the lord or as Paul put it draw back. (v.39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. That’s what you must do, you must have faith (believe) unto the saving of the soul. And your soul is not saved as soon as you start to believe on Jesus, salvation is works in progress, not a one step solution. yes and no (to "once saved always saved") yes, because once someone is saved from destruction, the same personality (not the same soul) will always be saved in exactly the same way and at the same time of the eternal cycle (in each of the next and future eternities), because there is eternal judgment i.e. eternal circle of existence, positions of and events with the souls (in which the souls are sequentially and periodically alternated as to the positions/personalities and their fates) and no, because there is no salvation to abundant and eternal life in Heaven/Paradise which lasts for all the time's infinity without any transition/interruption or end, because eternity is not just endless, but both cyclic and endless, for it is a circle - maybe you know how one wheel being rotated indefinitely at a constant speed about an axis makes full revolutions, and it can be said that that process is both cyclic and uninterrupted; so is eternity - the eternal cycle begins with God creating all the universal creation in six days, continues with the end of the reign of the "darkness" in the world as well as with the very inheritance of eternal life, and ends with the end of the life cycle of God, Who never dies completely, but is endlessly living (He just goes through a transition from the end of the eternity to the beginning of the next one); of course the true Saints (will) have eternal life for many successive eternities(eternal cycles), which is why it is written They (will) live for ever and ever i.e. for many consecutive eternities(eternal cycles) as for the questions in the op, the chances of the people, who cause evil to their neighbor/cohabitant, to fall to lower positions in the Kingdom of God are getting bigger and bigger with each day if they continue to cause evil to their neighbor/cohabitant and don't stop with/repent of their wickedness Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted November 2, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, simplejeff said: You will have to quote the posts you are thinking about, or thinking that you saw - no one has shown me wrong concerning salvation in any thread or post or at any time in my life..... so you are way way way out there with that one...... Sorry, the wrong person, I was referring to BroTan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 2, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Yowm said: Ok, it seems you were holding the only possibility of a person was ascribed to humans. Remember the robot that was granted citizenship ? It is "legally" a person(er.... "citizen" that is, I don't know if they legally designated it a person of not) ....... but NOT in the BIBLE. Yahweh and the Holy Spirit are NEVER referred to IN THE BIBLE as A PERSON nor as PERSONS. (nor as HUMAN)..... JESUS IS. Simple. Is ANYTHING ELSE in the BIBLE referred to as a human/ or person ? (IN the BIBLE, NOT by persons outside the Bible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 2, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Yowm said: I think we are speaking of individuality, thoughts, communications, feelings etc. God, humans and perhaps angels all fit. It was just the natural bias (by excluding the supernatural) of your dictionary definition that became problem-some. But it looks like you hold to that unbiblical definition. You haven't shown ANY OTHER definition yet ...... There's nothing unbiblical in what I post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 2, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, Yowm said: (our definition should be derived from Scripture). What language are we speaking ? English ? What dictionary do YOU USE ? Do you use a Biblical Dictionary ..... which one ? Simply show the definition, that's pretty simple, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted November 2, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2017 20 hours ago, Bro.Tan said: Born again is a change in the body not the mind, but those who don't really read the Bible will not understand. Lets go into John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything. Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses. John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit. Tan, when you face Judgement will you be good enough to enter the Kingdon and WHY. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted November 2, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 167 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,160 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 9:24 PM, Bro.Tan said: Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. Hi BT! There's no doubt about it that one of the surest evidences of redemption is if you never cease pursuing God's "pleasure," and if we do, it means He was never there to"work" this in us (Phil 2:13). Blessings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted November 3, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted November 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: When we believe in Jesus that he died on the Cross, we are under his blood whether we understand that or not. It does not depent upon our understanding, it depends upon Jesus and not just because he knows that because thats why he gave up himself on the Cross to die. To be the sucrifice for our sins. This is a simple thing for the Jews to understand what does it realy means to be under his blood. We are not to earn this possition to be under his blood. How can one earn this position to be under his blood? How? Jesus died for sinners, And he also die for those who were under the righteousness of the Law. At the Cross the righteousness of the Law finish, so the whole world is found to be unrighteous from that time on. Those who had died in the righteousness of the Law, are also found to be naked at the Cross, because they Cross gives the the righteousness of God, and they are found without the righteousness of God, which is the righteousness of Jesus Christ, who also has the life of God, and at the time of believe in him , he gives both the righteousness of God and the LIFE of God to those who believe. JESUS can say ; when one believes in me is mine, because he is as he is by faith alone, because Jesus is the Judge of all, believers and unbeliever, the good and the bad. He is the one who desides who is under his blood and his life. The same as he is by faith alone. This is the one who believes in him. Our righteousness is important but no for earning the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. And or his imputed eternal life with him. I did not say sin, but if you sin, don't be afraid that Jesus who is your judge will sent you to Hell because of your sins, he knows that he died and payed the penalty of your sins, hiw lucky we are. That's why he said ; nothing can take you from me. Your wages of your sins in the new covenant do not bring death, as Paul has explain: In jesus Christ is life in the name of Jesus. We don't earn salvation. we don't earn righteousness. BUT HEED this well. IF we aint walking righteously , but in darkness WE CAN SAY WE SAVED and kNOW HIM, but WE LIE and do not know Him. To all , PRAISE THE LORD . AND the LORD be praised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted November 3, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted November 3, 2017 19 hours ago, simplejeff said: Too far from the topic/point ...... too much distraction from what agape is, without knowing what agape is. Without knowing Yahweh's Plan and Purpose (even though you did quote a little of it, without seeing it) ...... I don't know the origin of the errors, or who told you in error that agape from Yahweh was what you said in this thread. They were wrong, and the rest of the associated thoughts then are wrong likewise also. (with wrong premise, anything built upon it is necessarily in error) ..... and, no, I don't know enough at this point to tell you when the error started, or why you believed it. Perhaps for future and different threads, if Yahweh permits. (not to derail this one any further) ... agape love REJOICES IN TRUTH . it does not rejoice in inquity. Love that does not honor a holy GOD, does not come FROM that GOD but from the world. Love that wont correct , but hugs those in darkness of sin , calling evil good and good evil, IS OF THE WORLD , its sensual and straight up from satan it is. Agape love does not contradict TRUTH. IT IS OF TRUTH as GOD is TRUTH . Todays version of love is of the devil. it allows men to remain in sin , and wont correct squat. ITS of satan. AND its wicked to the core. GOD is love and HE chastens and corrects ALL WHOM HE LOVES. Seeker friendly is OF SATAN , it sets none free, its captives stay in sin , serving sin and hugging all the while and thinks this is LOVE. I fear for many now. I truly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted November 3, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted November 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Robert William said: Tan, when you face Judgement will you be good enough to enter the Kingdon and WHY. Sorry ijust wanted to give the answer , cause it all about CHRIST. IF we in Christ we have been made the righteousness of GOD AND , YES ROBERTO DE VILLIM, WE WALK RIGHTEOUSLY as HE did. SAME SPIRIT , teaches us to walk RIGHTEOUSLY . NOT in darkness of sin. IF we say we are OF HIM and walk NOT like HE DID, but walk in darkness, WE LIE < WE DONT KNOW HIM . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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