simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 25 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: We are constantly telling people that we are to ask God for forgiveness when we know that it has already been given. This , for instance. Few people know this and it is actually not true for most people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: You may be right but there is an obvious conflict in the different passages and I was just trying to stimulate a conversation that may enlighten us all as to why we see that conflict. Okay, that makes sense anyway. I don't see any conflict in any Scripture with any other Scripture, btw. Yahweh's Word is Perfect, as He Is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 For the past 10 years I have been attending a community church associated with the Brethren In Christ. Calvenist, Lutheran, Babtist leaning, I dont know (dont really care to either), someone would have to analyze me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 hours ago, notsolostsoul said: Yet others may be discouraged by Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV) 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. In thinking that they can not be forgiven, so why bother trying to work on forgiveness. Just noticed, btw. WHO thinks that they cannot be forgiven? "Working" on forgiveness is simply DOing GOD'S WORD - as He Says. Is there some reason to worry about this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, simplejeff said: 8 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: You may be right but there is an obvious conflict in the different passages and I was just trying to stimulate a conversation that may enlighten us all as to why we see that conflict. Okay, that makes sense anyway. I don't see any conflict in any Scripture with any other Scripture, btw. Yahweh's Word is Perfect, as He Is. I should have been clearer, I meant a conflict in our understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike 2 said: For the past 10 years I have been attending a community church associated with the Brethren In Christ. Calvenist, Lutheran, Babtist leaning, I dont know (dont really care to either), someone would have to analyze me Good, that's a start, thank you. Some of those have doctrines that agree with each other, and some have doctrines that disagree. They may be vital doctrines, or they may be inconsequential doctrines or teachings that don't matter. Even within a denomination, different congregations might be led differently, with varying results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: I should have been clearer, I meant a conflict in our understanding COOL. Before ..... well, let's just say years ago.... I saw a whole lot of confusion and hypocrisy in various congregations. I did not know what to make of it , if anything. Thankfully, I also met true believers in several congregations and assemblies, from small home groups to large assemblies with 6000 or more people. The LIFE I saw in the true believers totally eclipsed the lack of life in the others who were there for other reasons. The JOY and UNION with JESUS , living DAILY in HIS PRESENCE, was the main difference, and was obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,228 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,076 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 It may not seem natural for the flesh of man to be capable of forgiveness towards himself or others, but through Christ Jesus and living in you through His Spirit living in you, it then becomes very possible to be capable of forgiving self as well as others. we are all types of " Ebeneezer scrooges" that need to be redeemed. Forgiveness of self and other can be a process but it is essentially necessary for your spiritual growth in Him. I would submit that if we cannot find it in our hears to forgive, we really need to look deeper into our relationship with Christ Jesus. Forgiveness is essential for christian growth to be. How amazing that god gift of Mercy and Grace is FREE. Its a free gift ubdeserved but available to ALL who ask for Gods Mercy and Grace. The sinner coming to the cross has to first understand the meaning of this. It is about asking for forgiveness and asking our Lord God to become Lord and Savior of our souls and lives. It about placing our sins and sickness at the foot of the cross and asking God through His son Christ Jesus to heal us from them. It is about asking God to come make a home in our hearts and live in us as we become willing to be holy sanctuaries of His indwelling spirit now in us. To become a christian is to follow christ Jesus and His examples and blue print for healthy , Holy living . A big part of becoming a christian is also letting go of SELF of EGO of PRIDE and let God BE in control of our lives as we become willing to turn our lives to the care of GOD. When we cannot forgive, we are taking the place of God, we are taking the place of His judgement. Only god can judge and hand out retribution, as only He alone is RIGHTEOUS. We are NOT GOD, we are sinners we are redeemed freely from our sins though God working in our hearts. but we are not god and never will be God. we as saint in him are subject to Him. the moment we choose to not forgive we are taking the place of God. Christ Jesus when He taught His disciples to pray He mentions repeatedly the importance of forgiving and mentions that if we cannot forgive our brethren, as God has so kindly forgiven us, neither will God forgive us. And why is that? Is is because if we have not understood our position in Christ nor have we come to understand His plan of salvation for us either. Matthew 6New King James Version (NKJV) Do Good to Please God 6 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.[a] The Model Prayer 5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[b] 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven,Hallowed be Your name.10 Your kingdom come.Your will be doneOn earth as it is in heaven.11 Give us this day our daily bread.12 And forgive us our debts,As we forgive our debtors.13 And do not lead us into temptation,But deliver us from the evil one.For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.[c] 14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Also for better understanding: The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant Matthew 18:21-35King James Version (KJV) 21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, simplejeff said: Just noticed, btw. WHO thinks that they cannot be forgiven? "Working" on forgiveness is simply DOing GOD'S WORD - as He Says. Is there some reason to worry about this ? I know many who believe they can not come back to or come to God because either they misinterpret scripture, someone else as stated scripture incorrectly or without real definition into it. So they misunderstand that even though they have struggles with forgiveness God doesn't work as we do or think. The passage is then taken literally without the context in which it was written. As Mike2 said with Adam and Eve, they did not forgive themselves and hid from God. I will get more indept. Running errands. Sorry for not being totally focused in the discussion. I do like the questions, points and scripture being mentioned. It is all profitable. Back in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted November 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: Adam and Eve, they did not forgive themselves and hid from God. Show from God's Word (or do tell what church or group claims this) that they did not forgive themselves please. (I don't remember anywhere that is written) ---------------- "Back in a bit." okay..... ....... online time is intermittent quite often ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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