Tristen Posted December 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,367 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,340 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 1:48 PM, one.opinion said: No, your disagreement is expected and encouraged. It is from our personal communication that it is clear that you do indeed have a problem with an interpretation of the Genesis creation account that is anything short of 100% literal. We can probably just leave it at that. May the peace and love of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you this Christmas, my brother! Hi One, Hope you had a nice Christmas. I guess I'm just not sure what the "problem" is. I am convinced that Genesis is intended as an historical account, but I am prepared to hear, consider and discuss different views. Where am I going wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Tristen said: I guess I'm just not sure what the "problem" is. I am convinced that Genesis is intended as an historical account, but I am prepared to hear, consider and discuss different views. Where am I going wrong? I understand and accept your viewpoint and acknowledge that we have a difference of opinion. However, you assume that a non-literal interpretation of the Genesis creation account must be viewed as theologically dangerous. It is possible to simply hold an opinion that someone else is wrong without assuming some deficiency. Back to the science later, still enjoying a day with the family! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 How did God create and make the material universe? Undoubtedly, God created and made the different parts of the material universe and each thing therein, using the same care and time as in the six days when He restored the planet Earth to a habitable state and made a new order of Earth creatures. In the work of the six days, it is stated that God, with His hands FORMED each of the living creatures and man out of the dust of the ground (Gen. 1:20-27; 2: 7-25; Job 26:13; Rom. 9:20; 1 Tim. 2:13). It is not only clear that God created the heavens, and the Earth and all things "In the beginning," or each in its own period , but it is also clear that God FORMED all things with His hands. God FORMED both light and darkness (Isa. 45:7). He did not do this in the first day of Gen. 1"3-5, for at that time He merely divided them. Therefore they must have been created and formed before the first day. It is also stated that God FORMED the Earth (Ps. 8:3, 6; 90:2; 95:5); the heavens (Ps. 8:3; 19:1; 102:25; Isa. 40:12) the planets (Ps. 8:3isa. 40:26; 44:12; 48:13; Heb. 1:10) and all things (Prov. 26:10). From a study of all these Scriptures given above and those on the creation of all things, it is clear that by the Word of God the materials were brought into existence, and then by His hands He formed the materials into the various parts of the universe. That is, God spoke, the materials came into existence and as fast as they materialised He used them to form all things with His hands (Ps. 8:3; 2 Pet. 3:3-9. Prov. 26:10). Next question would be, When did God create and make the material universe and all therein? The Bible says, "In the beginning [literally, by periods or ages] God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the Earth," it does not say "Six thousand years ago God created the heavens and the Earth," as generally taught. Can we say just when was the beginning? If we can, then we know more than God has revealed. If we cannot, then it stands to reason that we do not know, and therefore, should not teach that in the beginning was 6,000 years ago. As far as we know it could have been six billion years or more ago as well as about 6,000 years. When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with definite Bible authority that it was about 6,000 years ago. This we can see by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam in the outline of God's plan for mankind. In no Scripture are we told to believe that the heavens and the Earth were created during the six days at the time of Adam about 6,000 years ago. Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore that they were created about 6,000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages. In these passages the Hebrew asah, meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of bara, to create. Theseverses picture the re-creation work of the six days, and not the original creation "In the beginning." Asah never means to create. It is translated 659 times; make 449 times; maketh 59 times; makest sixteen times; maker thirteen times; amking eleven times; and madest three times. When God said, "In six days the Lord mad heaven and earth, He had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) and the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifers kingdom by the flood of Gen. 1:2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,367 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,340 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 55 minutes ago, one.opinion said: I understand and accept your viewpoint and acknowledge that we have a difference of opinion. However, you assume that a non-literal interpretation of the Genesis creation account must be viewed as theologically dangerous. It is possible to simply hold an opinion that someone else is wrong without assuming some deficiency. Back to the science later, still enjoying a day with the family! OK, so the thing I find concerning is NOT that you have a different opinion about the meaning of Genesis, but that when we discuss it, you, a Christian, seem to permit yourself the right to dismiss chapters of scripture under the guise, 'it's all figurative' - in some apparent (yet unjustified) obligation to adhere to secular stories about history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Tristen said: you, a Christian, seem to permit yourself the right to dismiss chapters of scripture under the guise, 'it's all figurative' - in some apparent (yet unjustified) obligation to adhere to secular stories about history. You believe my belief in a non-literal interpretation is unjustified. I can accept that. But you go further to presume that I could only hold to this interpretation if I am somehow spiritually deficient without knowing a single thing about me personally. I don’t judge you as an intellectual inferior because of our disagreement. So why do you judge me as a spiritual inferior? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,367 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,340 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 1 hour ago, one.opinion said: You believe my belief in a non-literal interpretation is unjustified. I can accept that. But you go further to presume that I could only hold to this interpretation if I am somehow spiritually deficient without knowing a single thing about me personally. I don’t judge you as an intellectual inferior because of our disagreement. So why do you judge me as a spiritual inferior? "You believe my belief in a non-literal interpretation is unjustified. I can accept that." What I think is "unjustified" is your apparent obligation to the secular story (which we have discussed at-length). "But you go further to presume that I could only hold to this interpretation if I am somehow spiritually deficient without knowing a single thing about me personally." When did I claim you are "somehow spiritually deficient"? When have I even implied such a thing. I know I haven't said it because I never thought it. This is in your own head, not in my words. So how can you assume I feel this way "without knowing a single thing about me personally"? "I don’t judge you as an intellectual inferior because of our disagreement. So why do you judge me as a spiritual inferior?" I have never done so - not in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tristen said: When have I even implied such a thing. I know I haven't said it because I never thought it. This is in your own head, not in my words. You directly questioned my personal walk with Jesus due to my interpretation of Genesis. It seems you have forgotten, but I remember it rather clearly. I had thought referencing our personal communication might jog your memory, but you have evidently dismissed it from your mind. Suffice it to say, you have gone beyond any “implication”, and it is not a fabrication in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,367 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,340 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 4 hours ago, one.opinion said: You directly questioned my personal walk with Jesus due to my interpretation of Genesis. It seems you have forgotten, but I remember it rather clearly. I had thought referencing our personal communication might jog your memory, but you have evidently dismissed it from your mind. Suffice it to say, you have gone beyond any “implication”, and it is not a fabrication in my mind. What I remember is "wondering" how permitting yourself the right to arbitrarily dismiss scripture as "figurative" when convenient might impact the rest of your walk with God (which I still think is a fair concern). I didn't "directly question" your "personal walk with Jesus" at all. Not even close. And I remember having explained all this too you at the time, and seemingly, the issue being resolved - and you claiming you don't really apply that approach to the rest of scripture anyway. What you seem to think happened never actually happened. But even though we went through it and I explained that your understanding went beyond my intention (not to mention any actual words I used), and even though you appeared to understand at the time (and we appeared to smooth things over), you still haven't let it go. You are choosing to maintain offence at something which was a fantasy to begin with. And now your mind has exaggerated my position to a claim of intellectual and spiritual superiority. I don't get why someone would choose to be that sensitive. If you have Christ. you have already one the game of life. You can chillax - even if someone intentionally tries to offend you. Sorry if this offends you too. As I mentioned to MG, I don't have a lot of tolerance for overly sensitive Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Tristen said: What I remember is "wondering" how permitting yourself the right to arbitrarily dismiss scripture as "figurative" when convenient might impact the rest of your walk with God (which I still think is a fair concern). "I also wonder what is the impact on your own personal walk with God, - that you give yourself permission to disregard scriptures you disagree with." "I wonder" if you are having difficulty being honest with yourself about your attitudes towards those that hold to interpretations that differ from your own. I've moved past my initial offense at your comment, but it did shed quite a bit of light on your views. 3 hours ago, Tristen said: And now your mind has exaggerated my position to a claim of intellectual and spiritual superiority. Just for the record as long as I'm harping on honesty, I only claimed that you hold to a mental position of spiritual superiority. I clearly did not claim that you held to an intellectually superior attitude. What I hope to see in the not-too-distant future is a day when young earth creationists and evolutionary creationists can agree that Jesus Christ is so much greater of a unifying theme than science is a divisive theme. Tristen, you have helped me significantly by being an example of a young earth creationist that doesn't rely decades-old, disproven factoids of why evolution is wrong, but is sincerely and diligently engaged in understanding and discussing science. For that, I thank you. 4 hours ago, Tristen said: If you have Christ. you have already one the game of life. On this sentiment, I completely agree! (Romans 8:31-32) 4 hours ago, Tristen said: You can chillax And props for working the word "chillax" into the conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 Do y'all think we can get back to the topic? Which is not who is spiritually correct or superior, btw. This is the topic: Distant black hole holds surprises about the early universe Any thoughts on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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