The Dark Side of Christianity

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:04 AM, Heleadethme said:

I guess the scriptures lie that say once having known the truth, it is impossible to renew them if they fall away

Knowing the truth isnt the same thing as believing it though. That is what I have been trying to get across. There are plenty of people out there who know the truth but they are not true believers in Christ.

Like for example those that follow the prosperity gospel liars. People (the preachers) who will be judged all the more harshly for losing the people who fall away and abandon Christ altogether because they came to Christ through misguided teachings and abandon Christ when they dont get their "best life now" (Joel Osteen). And when you try to teach people the real truth that Jesus Christ isnt all about money and cars and houses they dont want anything to do with that. So they leave Christ perhaps forever, hardening their hearts beyond reach.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

16 hours ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

And Ebola? That's God's punishment for......Barack Obama! LINK

Ummm Ebola first started showing up in the 70's and maybe before that as there were some outbreaks of a similar virus (Marburg) in the '60's. So you cant say it was a punishment for Barack Obama (or as I have heard some call him, OBUMMER  )

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Knowing the truth isnt the same thing as believing it though. That is what I have been trying to get across. There are plenty of people out there who know the truth but they are not true believers in Christ.

Like for example those that follow the prosperity gospel liars. People (the preachers) who will be judged all the more harshly for losing the people who fall away and abandon Christ altogether because they came to Christ through misguided teachings and abandon Christ when they dont get their "best life now" (Joel Osteen). And when you try to teach people the real truth that Jesus Christ isnt all about money and cars and houses they dont want anything to do with that. So they leave Christ perhaps forever, hardening their hearts beyond reach.

Sure agree with your point about the prosperity gospel, Matrix.  Just that where it talks about it being impossible to RENEW those who fall away, it has to be implying they had something to begin with, which they had fallen away from.  It might be though, that only the Lord can really judge who is where on the scale.....thus it is a warning and admonishment so that we don't slacken no matter where we are in our walk.  Running the race so as to win it.

[Heleadethme]

On 1/8/2018 at 7:32 AM, JohnD said:

The Church organism (which Christ died for) is not the Church organization (establishment industrial complex world religion), but individual believers who are the children of God the Father through adoption (Jesus is the only natural Son of the Father) making us priests of God each and every one of us. Bible says all this. The Church organization splits us into categories (clergy / laity), it discourages Holy Spirit interpreted Bible verified study of the Word of God preferring (demanding in some cases) we adhere to the traditional interpretations and practices. It demands we conform.

Today in Church Pastor Tommy used the "Lord's prayer" to bolster his point about forgiveness citing the after thought of the prayer "for if you forgive not those who trespass against you your heavenly Father will not forgive your trespasses..." and then later in Ephesians "forgive others as Christ forgave you..." 

I wanted to make the point of order, the passage (in Matthew) was to Old Testament disciples under the Old Testament Law. The New Testament begins at the cross. Hebrews 9:16-17.  Notice also in Ephesians the absence of our forgiving others having any bearing on God forgiving us.

But the Church organization dictates you sit in the pews shut up and never raise your hand for a point of order.

This is why I love love love going to sermons by preachers who have Q & A sessions afterwards.

You can maintain public speaking order (which is a must btw), but you can raise points of order afterward and the preacher is biblically accountable for what they preach.

 

Amen brother.......you raise a very good point.....not many realize how the way churches are run is unscriptural and antichrist.....and it prevents the Body from being built up and edified.   But we are to be a Body with many parts and all parts are needed from the greatest to the least, and this way the whole church is edified and built up.

1Corinthians 14:26

What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. (NIV)

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. (KJV)

 

 

 

[Pudgenik]

On 1/11/2018 at 3:30 PM, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

Wolves in sheep's clothing.  
Unfortunately in today's world where the Net sustains those opposed to the truth of God in Christ, the mere facade of nominal Christian as title allows wolves to prey in communities where actual sheep reside. 

The Bible for those wolves is a weapon not a balm , a love letter , to the world. It is a weapon to be taken apart piecemeal as scriptures are cut and pasted in order to deliver exactly what the Apostle Paul warned about centuries before. False teachers seeking to deceive even the Elect. 

Because Satan and his disciples, which he does have, despise the truth of eternal salvation. Because it means the human family that were his in the beginning of their life come the age of accountability can be saved from the fate that awaits. And all by God's doing and those mere humans only having to hold faith in the truth of God in Christ. Then, when those genuine faithful are sealed to the day of redemption with God's Holy Spirit, the adversary, the Satan, and his disciples , are lost for one more apostle that will not join them in Hell when it is time. 

Is it an wonder there are smiling devils with pearly white veneers glowing in the mouth that delivers the false news of the prosperity doctrine? 
Or like John Hagee, a morbidly obese Zionist Christian, who tells people who care to listen, if you see someone in the street starving, cold , homeless, don't give them money! Come to (his) church and give him the money and he'll give it out to those in need. That way you aren't praised for your charity! (But he is) But his church is!

To date there isn't a homeless shelter sponsored by Cornerstone church in San Antonio Texas.  And you never shall. LINK  

While big John's not ever going to be homeless. See? 

 

 

And sisters, this is what Johnny thinks of you and your place as women. LINK
And Ebola? That's God's punishment for......Barack Obama! LINK

 

My friend, do not fret about those demons, the Lord's servant wars such as them.

I read your words and God's Spirit (and i) just smiled. Your thoughts, so beautiful. 

I wish I could share with you, but some knowledge can overwhelm. Let me just say, the Two Golden Lampstands walk among us. Unknown to most. 

[Pudgenik]

14 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

We are admonished in scripture to produce fruits in keeping with repentance.......else the kingdom can be taken away from us and given to another.  It is very simple, T.P., so that a child can understand......how is that using it wrongly, I didn't use it in any way at all, I simply reminded us of that word.  Israel is our ensample so that we would learn and not make the same mistakes that caused the kingdom to be taken from her........and Paul wrote that we must not be conceited against Israel, else unnatural branches can be broken off to make room for the natural branches to be grafted in again.  I rejoice to see natural branches grafted back in........but really don't want to be one of the unnatural branches broken off and I'm sure you don't either.  Producing fruits is not works based salvation........fruits is the fruit of the SPIRIT, not of our own.  Our works is to BELIEVE in the one whom God sent......and thus we deny our selves and take up our cross and follow Him if we believe, that is our part to do........and as our life dies like a corn of wheat......it produces a crop of fruits that is not of our own.....faith, peace, goodness, love, joy, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, temperance etc.. Anyhow, think on these things sister, bless you........I know this might be a new perspective you have not heard before, the churches tend to overemphasize one point at the expense of the whole truth, and so it ends up that they are preaching a very skewed gospel.  Scripture has a lot of encouragements, but warnings and admonishments as well that we need to stay on the right track.

The work scripture speaks of is Christ working through us. 

It is written in scripture not to cover the lamp, but let the light shine for all to see.

It is the light of Christ in you that shines. It is the love of God that flows from us. God's love is an action. To love.

This is also speaking of the parable of the talents. The one who buried his talents. A Christian, who chooses not to love, not to allow the light of Christ shine forth. Who allows his old wine skin to contain him. Who does not change from within. Who becomes a Christian in name only. 

All who claim to be Christian, and can not love his brother because of the color of thier skin. All who Claim to be Christian that judge others because they don't think or believe as you do, yet those same people have love for God. All and I mean All Christians that cannot find love in thier hearts are in danger - of Hell.

I can say this in absolute confidence. Scripture tells us to Love our enemies. 

Jesus teaches us to be like Him. Like Him in His life, Like Him in His death. And join Him in His resurrection.

Peace brother

[Pudgenik]

13 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Knowing the truth isnt the same thing as believing it though. That is what I have been trying to get across. There are plenty of people out there who know the truth but they are not true believers in Christ.

Like for example those that follow the prosperity gospel liars. People (the preachers) who will be judged all the more harshly for losing the people who fall away and abandon Christ altogether because they came to Christ through misguided teachings and abandon Christ when they dont get their "best life now" (Joel Osteen). And when you try to teach people the real truth that Jesus Christ isnt all about money and cars and houses they dont want anything to do with that. So they leave Christ perhaps forever, hardening their hearts beyond reach.

Prosperity teaching twists the meaning of the Gospels. I get so upset with those guys.

[Heleadethme]

8 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

The work scripture speaks of is Christ working through us. 

It is written in scripture not to cover the lamp, but let the light shine for all to see.

It is the light of Christ in you that shines. It is the love of God that flows from us. God's love is an action. To love.

This is also speaking of the parable of the talents. The one who buried his talents. A Christian, who chooses not to love, not to allow the light of Christ shine forth. Who allows his old wine skin to contain him. Who does not change from within. Who becomes a Christian in name only. 

All who claim to be Christian, and can not love his brother because of the color of thier skin. All who Claim to be Christian that judge others because they don't think or believe as you do, yet those same people have love for God. All and I mean All Christians that cannot find love in thier hearts are in danger - of Hell.

I can say this in absolute confidence. Scripture tells us to Love our enemies. 

Jesus teaches us to be like Him. Like Him in His life, Like Him in His death. And join Him in His resurrection.

Peace brother

AMEN.......thanks for sharing that word Pudgnik.  And Love is His nature, His spirit within....it's a higher love than human love.  His love shed abroad on our hearts.

[Heleadethme]

Here is a word about fruits, that I think is worth a read:

The Harvest of the Earth

Sin came from a seed and righteousness comes from a Seed. Every seed sown grows to a tree that bring forth fruits. And Sin grows into fruits; and righteousness grows into fruits. And since every fruits can be harvested: it means figuratively: there is   a harvest of the fruits of sin; and there is a harvest of the fruits of righteousness. One harvests the fruits of sin, when he bears the painful consequences of His Sins and one  harvest the fruits of righteousness: when he/she abundantly enjoy the more Abundant peace, joy, heavenly happiness, the sweet communion with Christ etc  , that comes as a result of first receiving the Word of God (Christ Jesus) as a seed .

Scripturally words are typified as seeds. From the Beginning: God created the Earth with a capacity to receive different form of seeds: Both the good and Evil seeds. Since words are typified as seeds scripturally, man himself was created with a capacity to receive different forms of seeds. Even the Garden of Eden had different form of seeds. Because in the Garden of Eden was a serpent, and the serpent had its own, evil seeds: which is his evils words. But though man was created with a Capacity to receive both good and evil seeds from the Garden of Eden, yet the will of God was that Man should only receive the good seeds and feed on their fruits. And we read what man brought upon himself by receiving the seed of the serpent (hearkening the evil words) . There was a Harvest of fruits in the Garden of Eden: when the evil seed was sown in Adam and Eve, they reaped a Harvest of darkness, sorrow, anguish and Pain.

Seeds do not have the same size. Compared to all other types of seeds, the good seed (the words of God) are so insignificant in size, like a grain of mustard seed, which indeed appear as the Least of all seeds (Mat 31v32). Because the natural man is easily enticed with size, Bigness, powerful appearance, when he/she sees how insignificant the good seed (the words of God) appear in size, compare with the evil seeds (the words of the flesh, devil and the world): he finds it impossible to accept that the good seeds are the best except if he receives them by faith.

 On the other hand, when the good seed is received in the heart, as small and insignificant it appears in comparison with others seeds,   (the words of the flesh, the world and the devil) it grows infinitely higher than all other seeds: like the mustard tree which seed  is the least of all seeds. yet when it grows it become the greatest of all herbs. Does showing forgiveness appear stronger than revenge? does humility appear stronger than Highness, haughtiness? Does selflessness appear stronger than selfishness? Does a little Child that depends of his heavenly father appear stronger than an independent grown up Man that does not “need” his heavenly father? Does faith appear stronger than evidence? Does the Armour of God, which a believer has by faith and prayer, appear safer than the physical armour  of men  ?

It is impossible for a man to see in Truth: forgiveness is infinitely higher than revenge; humility is infinitely higher than pride and haughtiness; selflessness is infinitely higher then selfishness; serving others is infinitely greater than being serve:  except He is seeing the Kingdom of God. It is because the good seed grows in the Kingdom of God, and only those that are seeing the kingdom, can see how tall and how fruitful the insignificant seed appears in the Kingdom of God.

 

“The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: Which indeed is THE LEAST OF ALL SEEDS: but when it is grown, it is the GREATEST among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.(Mat.13v32-35).”

Those that do not see the Kingdom of God , cannot believe that the prophets  in the OT, the apostle in the NT ,were men of like passion like we are : because as they read the scriptures and see the Harvest of the good seed in the life of the instrument of God , seeing how through faith they  turn a desert into a fruitful land, stopped the mouth of lions, overcome discouragement and hopelessness in adversity and imprisonment  through faith in the Lord etc :they assume they were some super humans, with some special grace unavailable for this generation. They failed to see that they all went through the stages of sprirual development. And the beginning of spiritual development, is hardly notice by men. It is more Easier to believe when the seed reach its end , than when it start it work from the beginning.  But as the Psamist said “ Your word is true from the Beginning (Ps119v160)”, in the same vein :the one that received the good seed , and walk in its light  will have the witness in himself :that the good seed (the word of God) is not only true , when the outward fruits appears , but was ever True from the Beginning , when there was no outward sign.

The Harvest of the good seed (the words of God) on Earth happens in the Heart. The Fruits are the Increase of unsearchable riches of Christ life, Christ power, Christ Spirit in men: which keep growing for eternity.  “But now being made free from Sin, and become servants to God , ye have your FRUITS UNTO HOLINESS and the end EVERLASTING LIFE (ROM.6V22).

On the other Hand, there is a Harvest of the evil seeds sown in the hearts of men, when the fruits are ripe. This speaks of Judgment on Earth.  There is a harvest of evil fruits in an Individual , a family, nation etc.  This happens when God himself come to Judge an Individual, a family , a nation :to reap the things that they sow.  It is because of this Reason Amos was sown a Basket of Fruits when God was about to Judge the nation of Israel for their sin. It is because their sins had grown from seed, stem , branches into fruits.

“Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit. And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more. (Amos8v1-2).

And finally there is a Harvest on Earth :and this happens when the Lord come to judge a Generation :and the of  severity of the judgment will be felt worldwide.

“and another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.(Rev.14v15-16) “ .

Those that receive the good seed, and live in that seed has nothing to fear or trouble about the harvest of the Earth :because their harvest will be glory, honor and immortality. May God help us all.

[Denadii]

On 12/26/2017 at 12:14 PM, DesertSW said:

Let me first start off with a disclaimer. I believe in the Word of God and in all the fundamental tenants of Christianity. I became a Christian back in 1993 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I gave up trusting in my good works and put all my faith in what Jesus had done on the cross, for my salvation.

The "dark side" I speak of is something that is not really talked about or discussed in churches. I've attended all types of protestant churches in the past 25 years (Baptist, denominational, non-denominational) and not one really discussed this aspect of Christianity. It is factually evident and not just experiential, although I have personally experienced it, it is backed by factual evidence.

This dark side is about how born-again Christians will betray you and the faith. I've personally experienced 10 of those betrayals over the course of 25 years. The latest one which was my wife, and her parents, was the most devastating. You can read about it here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/211844-my-marriage-divorce-testimony/

It would take quite a bit of typing to go into deep detail on these betrayals but all of them involved true Believers who ended up betraying and hurting me in such ways that left deep scars that will never go away. These betrayals involved lying, breaking promises, breaking vows/covenants, leaving the faith/church, disobeying tenants of the faith and sinning against God and breaking clear Biblical tenants, church splits and behavior that would make unbelievers blush.

Modern Christianity kind of paints a picture that once you are surrounded by other Christians, things will be OK and that they will always love and honor God. That is completely false and this dark side is not discussed because it would turn off those "seekers" or unbelievers as they would clearly see hypocrisy. If the saved Christian church is no different than the unsaved sector of society, then it offers nothing different than secular society.

If we are honest, then we should put out a disclaimer in the churches. Something like this should be in the doctrinal statement after all the major tenants of the faith are posted:

Having stated the above doctrinal positions, we want to clearly state that there are times when true believers and followers of the Christian faith will do things that will grieve and shock you, sin and dishonor God, His Word and even hurt other Christians in that process. This is part of the free will that God gives believers. Even though they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, believers will at times hurt you and sin against you and God. These incidents will really hurt you and rock you to the core as one believes that a Christian shouldn't act that way, which they shouldn't, but can and will act that way. Pastors will sin, wives & husbands will deceive & sin, brothers and sisters in Christ will lie, dishonor, sin and hurt you.

It is important to understand this facet of the Christian faith. To enter into the Christian faith thinking that other Christians can't or will not do such things is only setting up yourself for disappointment and shock. That might, in effect, make your faith stumble. So it is best that we as a church make this disclaimer that Christians can and will do these things. It is a sad but factual truth of the human being, even when indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that they will do these things. So it is best to be prepared when those incidents occur that it is not the Christian faith that failed, but that person who failed. They failed to follow God and His Word. Christians will disappoint you, sin against you and hurt you, please be prepared that this can and most likely will occur in your lifelong journey as a Christian.

 

I've been betrayed by Christians more than by nonChristians.  Many times too.  First you must forgive them.  You already know that....Second...You have to remember that they are people, only people...and they are full of holes...rotten spots.   Then they are sometimes taught silly things like, everything they have, everything you have belongs to God not to you or them.  So they tend to get careless...Lend them a mower and have to rebuild it after you've gone to get it back a month later......Lend them your car and ....oh big mistake!     

For some reason, Christians, and not just the new Christians, have a 'peculiar' way of thinking....Too much churchy doctrine and not enough Word...