MMAlex Posted February 2, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 26 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2018 I hear fasting is part of the old covenant...yet Jesus talks about how to fast in Matthew 6:16-18 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly" ...and circumcision....I thought baptism replaced that yet it's still being done today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted February 2, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2018 12 hours ago, MMAlex said: I hear fasting is part of the old covenant...yet Jesus talks about how to fast in Matthew 6:16-18 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly" ...and circumcision....I thought baptism replaced that yet it's still being done today. Circumcision was a commandment of the old covenant. And then itself was only a symbol of circumcising the heart. Fasting was never a commandment in the OT or New but it is still a commendable practice, to put aside your bodily needs and put God first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyDestiny Posted February 2, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 131 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 59 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/08/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2018 Well, i'm a bit of an oddball Christian. In my eyes, the new covenant basically says we can now be saved through the blood of Christ rather than having to sacrifice animals and sprinkle their blood about on an altar; it does not make the old one irrelevant. I engage in a kosher diet, I believe in circumcision, I look at the bible as a whole rather than just picking at lines. However, typical Christian views are that because of the blood of Christ and a few other passages in the NT, the OT laws and practices are obsolete. God gave Peter a vision of a table covered in non-kosher meats. Peter said no, as he hadn't ever eaten of anything common or unclean, and God replied, "that which I have created, you should not call common or unclean". Many state this as proof of Christians not being bound to OT dietary laws. However, Peter explains it a few lines later that it was about MEN, not food. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 2, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2018 30 minutes ago, GreyDestiny said: Well, i'm a bit of an oddball Christian. In my eyes, the new covenant basically says we can now be saved through the blood of Christ rather than having to sacrifice animals and sprinkle their blood about on an altar; it does not make the old one irrelevant. I engage in a kosher diet, I believe in circumcision, I look at the bible as a whole rather than just picking at lines. However, typical Christian views are that because of the blood of Christ and a few other passages in the NT, the OT laws and practices are obsolete. God gave Peter a vision of a table covered in non-kosher meats. Peter said no, as he hadn't ever eaten of anything common or unclean, and God replied, "that which I have created, you should not call common or unclean". Many state this as proof of Christians not being bound to OT dietary laws. However, Peter explains it a few lines later that it was about MEN, not food. The OT laws were given to show us that we cannot live a righteous life. There are 613 laws in the OT. IT is also stated that if we break just one of the laws, we broke them all. These laws were also given only to the Hebrews, or Jewish Nation, not the Gentiles. If you read the NT, Jesus sums it up rather nicely. “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” You can find this also in Deuteronomy 6:5; 10:12; 11:13; 13:3; and in Joshua 22:5. And addition is also found in Mark 10:30 and Luke 10:27 where there is an addition of "all your strength". Now, look at Acts 15. In verses 22-29, we read: Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. Being circumcised is not a requirement to us, Gentiles, and only a yoke around the neck of the Jewish. Have you considered the difference between what being circumcised meant in the OT and compare it to what is being taught in Romans 2? Romans 2:25-29 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyDestiny Posted February 2, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 131 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 59 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/08/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, OneLight said: Being circumcised is not a requirement to us, Gentiles, and only a yoke around the neck of the Jewish. Have you considered the difference between what being circumcised meant in the OT and compare it to what is being taught in Romans 2? You do make very good points; it is not required for a Christian. Many Christians are against the practice of circumcision. As one who practices the OT as well as the NT though, I see it as in keeping with the covenant. I've thought about what I would do if I had a son, and I think I would leave him uncircumcised. If he wished to change that later on, seeing things as I do, then he would have the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytLiJC Posted February 8, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 357 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 65 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/2/2018 at 3:52 AM, MMAlex said: I hear fasting is part of the old covenant...yet Jesus talks about how to fast in Matthew 6:16-18 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly" ...and circumcision....I thought baptism replaced that yet it's still being done today. what we have to do in fasting is to be truly concerned and solicitous about the welfare of our neighbors/townsmen/cohabitants and to seek a way to resolve their problems (as it is explained in Isaiah 58) - this is what the true fasting is in both the old and the new covenant - there is only a health benefit in self-deprivation of food as for circumcision, it is in essence baptism i.e. "circumcision"="baptism", to be clearer, it is another word for baptism in Scripture - the benefit of physical circumcision is only physiological Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted February 9, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 686 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 221 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 8:52 PM, MMAlex said: I hear fasting is part of the old covenant...yet Jesus talks about how to fast As long as you help people I don't think it matters if you fast. Isaiah chapter 58 verse 6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? 1 John chapter 4 verse 7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 7:52 PM, MMAlex said: I hear fasting is part of the old covenant...yet Jesus talks about how to fast in Matthew 6:16-18 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly" ...and circumcision....I thought baptism replaced that yet it's still being done today. No, circumcision is not replaced by baptism. Baptism is not the NT corollary to circumcision because circumcision was done to you as an infant when you had no choice. NT Baptism is an act of obedience based on your faith in Jesus Christ. It is something you consciously obey from the heart in obedience to Jesus' command. So they are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts