1 Corinthians 11:15 (long haired women)

[Guest Butero]

6 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

 

The purpose of my response wasn't to provide you an opportunity to get back in the pulpit.
Shouldn't make assumptions. My hair got longer, about like Pa Ingles on Little House on the Prairie, but no longer a burr cut. Was hoping you would pick up on my explanation of my lose of trust in authorities, AND OTHERS, due to experiences of youth. I suppose you are correct in the fact that most youth do rebel to some extent in most generations, it's part of the rite of growing our OWN wings and leaving the nest. I simply was anxious to be on my own, making my own decisions, trying to decide my vocation, where I lived, my friends, growing up, etc. Assuming any male with long hair is rebellious, contentious, bringing shame on the Lord is a stretch. The Nazirites, Samson, would not appreciate that, nor would a Godly friend at church whose long hair hides his childhood scars from burns. I personally do not like to see my grandsons with longer hair than when my generation wore crew cuts. Don't think rebellion even enters his mind. And what's more important, I'm praising God they're saved. (Long hair or not)
Did you even look at the rest of what I posted, how in Christ I learned to trust again, how as I matured in Christ I realized how much more important it was to have a pure heart inside, and not a perfect acceptable approved outward appearance? I can read scripture. There were some long hairs, special people of God. Most sins committed are due to the dirty inside, not clothes and hair length. You might want to zero in on the intent of the heart, and quit assuming people with hair longer than you approve are rebelling in the sin of witchcraft, contentious and shaming our Lord. Long hair and short dresses are not the big problem in most churches today, I think.  It's what goes on in your head, your heart.

zeal;  great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective...............
zealot;  a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.......

No, I didn't shave my head. But God circumcised my heart.
Rom 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

I am so happy to be a zealot.  The Lord make me a bigger zealot than I am today.  That means I am not lukewarm.  The scriptures are clear in this matter.  Yes, if someone has taken a Nazarite vow, during the time of the vow, they can't cut their hair, but they must abide by a lot of rules during that time period, and shave their head when the vow is up.  If anyone is under a Nazarite vow, of course I would believe they are fine, so long as they are following all the regulations.  I have never met a long haired man doing that.  

It is true that many people don't realize they are a shame unto their head.  How could they when we have spineless preachers that won't tell them the whole truth?  

"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."

"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head:  for that is even all one as if she were shaven."  

"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, IT IS A SHAME UNTO HIM?"

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her:  FOR HER HAIR IS GIVEN HER FOR A COVERING."  

I just happen to be someone that believes the scriptures over the objections of men and women in this untoward generation.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Butero said:

I am so happy to be a zealot.  The Lord make me a bigger zealot than I am today.  That means I am not lukewarm.  The scriptures are clear in this matter.  Yes, if someone has taken a Nazarite vow, during the time of the vow, they can't cut their hair, but they must abide by a lot of rules during that time period, and shave their head when the vow is up.  If anyone is under a Nazarite vow, of course I would believe they are fine, so long as they are following all the regulations.  I have never met a long haired man doing that.  

It is true that many people don't realize they are a shame unto their head.  How could they when we have spineless preachers that won't tell them the whole truth?  

"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."

"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head:  for that is even all one as if she were shaven."  

"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, IT IS A SHAME UNTO HIM?"

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her:  FOR HER HAIR IS GIVEN HER FOR A COVERING."  

I just happen to be someone that believes the scriptures over the objections of men and women in this untoward generation.

Tons of preachers are teaching massive things they ought not too.   

I mean so many have said do you take this woman to be your wife,   put third or fourth wife in that place ,  and act as though its all good , that all is fine .

THATS adultery according to JESUS .     and well,    I take what HE Say serious .    you be blessed butero.   many pastors teach and allow many things contrary to Christ

to go on in them churches .  and worse the people love to have it so.  

[Guest Butero]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Tons of preachers are teaching massive things they ought not too.   

I mean so many have said do you take this woman to be your wife,   put third or fourth wife in that place ,  and act as though its all good , that all is fine .

THATS adultery according to JESUS .     and well,    I take what HE Say serious .    you be blessed butero.   many pastors teach and allow many things contrary to Christ

to go on in them churches .  and worse the people love to have it so.  

That is so true, and they are doing something else that seems fine on the surface, but is a deception.  This move to allow everyone to write their own vows is destructive.  It is a way to agree to anything you wish, having made no real commitment.  I guess the thinking is that if you only agree to things that are simple and not hard to do, you won't break them.  Leave out till death do us part, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, things like that, and just make silly promises.  There are so many things that are wrong and out of order about the church today.  We need to return to following the Bible.  

[simplejeff]

5 minutes ago, naominash said:

I don't think Scripture saying that a woman's hair being her glory means that she can never cut her hair.

For a long time I went to an Apostolic Pentecostal church. Some of their views on modesty stuck with me. Out of personal conviction, I only wear skirts now. But I'm not sure that women having short hair is a sign of rebellion against God. 

The Scripture used in argument for this is usually 1 Corinthians 11:15 

¹⁵ but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

However, if verses 5 and 6 of the same chapter, it says

⁵ But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. ⁶ For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

I honestly think, based on this passage, that this is referring to a head covering besides hair during prayer and prophesying. Not just having long hair. Personally, I take this to mean wearing some sort of head covering during prayer and worshiping in church.

 

¹⁰ It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own^[a] head, because of the angels. ¹¹ Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

In conclusion, I think it matters less about hair length than showing a sign of submission with an actual head covering. I don't think women should be condemned over this issue, but rather lovingly asked to pray about matters of what to wear and how to dress for themselves with a desire to please God first and foremost.

I used to wear some pretty terrible things. It was my own relationship with God and the loving witness of women I respected that made me want to practice modesty for myself. 

Amen.  HalleluYAH !   Stay trusting and growing ABIDING IN JESUS with the FATHER ! as they are ONE,  ECHAD,  so be with them ONE,  ECHAD !   HALLELUYAH AGAIN ! 

[Guest Butero]

2 minutes ago, naominash said:

I don't think Scripture saying that a woman's hair being her glory means that she can never cut her hair.

 

For a long time I went to an Apostolic Pentecostal church. Some of their views on modesty stuck with me. Out of personal conviction, I only wear skirts now. But I'm not sure that women having short hair is a sign of rebellion against God. 

The Scripture used in argument for this is usually 1 Corinthians 11:15 

¹⁵ but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

 

 

However, if verses 5 and 6 of the same chapter, it says

 

⁵ But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. ⁶ For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

 

 

I honestly think, based on this passage, that this is referring to a head covering besides hair during prayer and prophesying. Not just having long hair. Personally, I take this to mean wearing some sort of head covering during prayer and worshiping in church.

 

¹⁰ It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own^[a] head, because of the angels. ¹¹ Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

 

 

In conclusion, I think it matters less about hair length than showing a sign of submission with an actual head covering. I don't think women should be condemned over this issue, but rather lovingly asked to pray about matters of what to wear and how to dress for themselves with a desire to please God first and foremost.

 

I used to wear some pretty terrible things. It was my own relationship with God and the loving witness of women I respected that made me want to practice modesty for myself. 

The passage actually says the hair is the covering.  I don't know how you can take that to mean a veil, when it specifically says the hair is the covering.  I don't condemn anyone over this, because it does say if someone wants to be contentious, they have no such custom.  It is not a sin, but it is an outward sign of rebellion.  That is why as a man, I feel terrible if my hair is long.  It is a shame to my head, the Lord Jesus Christ.  That is why I have cut my own hair, even to the point of giving myself a terrible hair cut, before letting it get long.  If a woman wants to wear a head covering, I respect her for that.  It is a further outward sign she is under submission to her spiritual head.  

We need to realize once again, that this teaching isn't just for women.  Men are to keep their hair short.  As a man, I am to abide by that, not because I fear hell over it, but because I don't want to bring shame to Christ.  By the way, I am aware of Apostolic teaching, and the Bible doesn't say women can never cut their hair.  It is just a matter of long verses short, but I will say this.  If they never cut their hair, in most cases, that will ensure they will have long hair.  

[Guest Butero]

2 minutes ago, naominash said:

The church I went to was very controlling and, in my opinion, intrusive on matters of conscience. I did not agree with it although I did find the modest fashions very beautiful. But to be fair, I would never cut my hair short. I have always loved and wanted long hair. 

As long as you are not saying that a woman can never cut her hair period, I think I can agree with you that because of Paul's teachings, men should wear their hair short and women, well, not short. 

 

 

I have visited a United Pentecostal Church before, and I know that they teach women can never cut their hair, and if they do, they are in sin.  The Bible doesn't say that.  It says it is a shame.  My biggest issues with the U.P.C. was the fact they deny the trinity, don't believe you are saved till you are baptized in water in the name of Jesus, and are not saved till you speak in tongues.  The other things are not entirely necessary, like makeup and jewelry are not forbidden, but those are not the kind of things that would cause me to not go to that church.  

[Guest Butero]

8 hours ago, LadyKay said:

There is a church in my town and all the women who  go there wear their hair really long and wear these long long skirts. All I ever think about them when I see them  is  not that they must be Holy.  As I know nothing from their outward dress about how right they are with God.  But that they most likely go to  that church.  It is only after I talk to them and get to know them, and some I have. That I consider rather or not they are followers of Christ. 

I see women in my local Wal-Mart wearing long dresses and head coverings, and I immediately think they are an example of true Christian ladies.  It caused me to ask one where she goes to church so I could visit it.  They were a type of Amish, but not the horse and buggy kind.  

[LadyKay]

1 minute ago, Butero said:

I see women in my local Wal-Mart wearing long dresses and head coverings, and I immediately think they are an example of true Christian ladies

I guess that is the difference between me and you Butero. You think you can look at how someone is dressed and know rather or not they are followers of Christ. While I do not. I think if you saw me shopping at Wal mart in my jeans and Star War's t-shirt, you would most likely think of me as a sinner.  But I don't let that sort of thing bother me. I can not change how other people think about stuff. I do have to say that this has been one of the most interesting tropics on the forum. And I have learn much from it on how people think and look at others. 

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

I guess that is the difference between me and you Butero. You think you can look at how someone is dressed and know rather or not they are followers of Christ. While I do not. I think if you saw me shopping at Wal mart in my jeans and Star War's t-shirt, you would most likely think of me as a sinner.

 

4 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

I do have to say that this has been one of the most interesting tropics on the forum. And I have learn much from it on how people think and look at others.

You realize that you cannot change how other people think , right ?   Or how they live either, unless they want to change....

Or, can you ?  Can you cause one person to stumble ? 

Can you cause (or help) one person to turn to JESUS ?

[Guest Butero]

1 minute ago, LadyKay said:

I guess that is the difference between me and you Butero. You think you can look at how someone is dressed and know rather or not they are followers of Christ. While I do not. I think if you saw me shopping at Wal mart in my jeans and Star War's t-shirt, you would most likely think of me as a sinner.  But I don't let that sort of thing bother me. I can not change how other people think about stuff. I do have to say that this has been one of the most interesting tropics on the forum. And I have learn much from it on how people think and look at others. 

You can learn things from these threads.  The ladies were as I thought, very dedicated Christians.  They were part of a Beechy Amish congregation, where they are allowed to drive regular automobiles and use some modern conveniences, but they are still very strict.  The ladies that wear dresses and head coverings stand out, as a type of light shining in the darkness.  Everyone else just kind of blends in with the crowd.  

So you are a "Star Wars" fan hugh?  Even though I enjoy science-fiction, I have never been able to get into "Star Wars."  Shows like "X Files" and "Fringe" are interesting to me, and so is the original "Twilight Zone."