THE EXHORTATION THREAD (For Christians Who Love Jesus)

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

39 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Amen....very much agree......and I know by experience that what you are saying is true as well, because of having gone through it in my life.  I know just how the teachings of man confuse and muddy the simple truth, because I was in that place for a long time.  Whereas the Holy Spirit helps us to rightly divide the scriptures and understand who/what is being addressed.

I also remember very well what it is like to not know how to rely on or have experience of the Holy Spirit, so that is why I sometimes can tell those who have not yet received the Holy Spirit since they believed.  That is not an accusation, it is just something we all very much need in the battle.......the church or denomination that some people adhere to does not preach to be filled with the Spirit, nor lay on hands and pray for it for their flock.....and I encourage any who are lacking in that area to seek the Lord about it.  People certainly may be saved without being filled with the Holy Spirit.....it is like when Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, receive ye the Holy Spirit....they were saved because they believed on Him and had the Holy Spirit......but just not in the sense of being filled yet, until it became possible at Pentecost.  So if I think that someone is not filled with the Holy Spirit, it doesn't mean I don't believe they are saved.  Paul asked some, "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?"  He wasn't accusing them at all, but making known to them something that they needed.

All Christians have received the Holy Spirit (or else they are not truly born-again and are Christians in name only), but not all Christians are full of the Spirit, as some teach and believe. The born-again experience and the filling of the Holy Spirit are two different experiences, even though they may occur simultaneously in some cases; and most Christians have not been filled (whatever they may have been taught or told). One does not need to be filled with the Spirit in order to be saved, but it does come with various spiritual advantages, such as boldness and greater discernment---two things which are notably lacking in the Church today.

[Heleadethme]

11 minutes ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

All Christians have received the Holy Spirit (or else they are not truly born-again and are Christians in name only), but not all Christians are full of the Spirit, as some teach and believe. The born-again experience and the filling of the Holy Spirit are two different experiences, even though they may occur simultaneously in some cases; and most Christians have not been filled (whatever they may have been taught or told). One does not need to be filled with the Spirit in order to be saved, but it does come with various spiritual advantages, such as boldness and greater discernment---two things which are notably lacking in the Church today.

Amen sister, that is what I was trying to say.  The disciples were saved before the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost.

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

8 minutes ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

The born-again experience and the filling of the Holy Spirit are two different experiences

What is this filling you are talking about?!

I thought there was only one that is receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, which requires repentance, and this leads to the born again experience.

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." - John 7:38

 

Or can people be just filled and not have the dwelling Holy Spirit!? Can it be people at Matthew 7:22 as well?!

 

Thank you!

[Heleadethme]

13 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Yes, this is true. When we need to know of something it simply comes.

 

Sorry, but I do not believe it is possible. The Holy Spirit of God dwelling in us is what will give us life.

"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
    He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." - Romans 8:11

 

The strategy of the enemy is exactly to prevent people from receiving the Holy Spirit in their hearts.

"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name,
    cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" - Matthew 7:22-23

 

This way, they will remain in the flesh and take part in the resurrection of the condemnation.

"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world,
    and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." - John 3:19

 

People can receive the Holy Spirit simply by believing in the words of the Lord Jesus, and they must receive Him fully for this.

"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." - John 14:23

 

"that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
    may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height
        to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." - Ephesians 3:17-19

 

"But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive;
    for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." - John 7:39

Brother, remember Jesus breathing on the disciples and saying "Receive ye the Holy Spirit"........this was before the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost.  I believe there is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit when one comes to faith in Christ and then being filled with the Holy Spirit afterwards.  This is why Paul asked them if they had yet received the Holy Spirit since they believed...he was asking if they had yet been filled with the Spirit, even though they were born again believers.

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

3 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

The disciples were saved before the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost.

Wasn't that a manifestation of the Spirit?!

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
    for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
        to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
            to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
                to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues." - 1 Corinthians 12:7-10

 

Is manifestation and dwelling of the Holy Spirit two separate things?! Can people manifest without having the dwelling Holy Spirit?!

Again, Matthew 7:22 comes to mind... Or may have nothing to do with it?!

 

Thank you!

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

23 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Is manifestation and dwelling of the Holy Spirit two separate things?! Can people manifest without having the dwelling Holy Spirit?!

Again, Matthew 7:22 comes to mind... Or may have nothing to do with it?!

I believe manifestation and dwelling of the Holy Spirit are indeed two different things. People may manifest and do not have the dwelling Holy Spirit.

"You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?" - Matthew 7:16

 

I believe gifts can be given without much requirement, except the gift of love (dwelling Holy Spirit) which requires repentance.

"I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend,
    yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs." - Luke 11:8

 

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,
and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." - 1 Corinthians 13:2

 

But what really matters at the end is the gift of love, the dwelling Holy Spirit; that gives life.

"For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
    But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away." - 1 Corinthians 13:9-10

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered;
    and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." - John 15:6

"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8

 

@Heleadethme

Please, how much do you agree?

Edited March 20, 2018 by 4LdKHVCzRDj2

[Heleadethme]

8 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Wasn't that a manifestation of the Spirit?!

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
    for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
        to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
            to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
                to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues." - 1 Corinthians 12:7-10

 

Is manifestation and dwelling of the Holy Spirit two separate things?! Can people manifest without having the dwelling Holy Spirit?!

Again, Matthew 7:22 comes to mind... Or may have nothing to do with it?!

 

Thank you!

Yes, I think it is two separate things......a believer may have the Holy Spirit and faith in Christ by the Spirit, even if they have not yet have received the Holy Spirit in the sense of being filled and having the manifestation of the Spirit.  But I don't believe they may be filled with the Holy Spirit unless they have already received Him by faith. .. Being filled with the Spirit is only for the believer.   I don't know for sure but possibly some may even be filled with the Spirit very quickly after believing and might not even know it is two separate experiences, so to speak.

Matthew 7:22.......that speaks of those who did receive the Holy Spirit (filled/manifestation) but who are not doing the will of God, they are like those men of renown we see on TV who are using the gifts to build their own empires and fortunes instead of doing the will of God......following Him, obeying Him,  taking up their cross, etc.  The gifts and callings are irrevocable.....people may be in sins or error of doctrine and still manifest the gifts of the Spirit.....only it will be tainted accordingly.  And if the Spirit is grieved enough to leave them entirely, they may receive an utter counterfeit as judgment....in that sense they still have their gifts, but a counterfeit version so to speak.  That is why they may still be doing miracles etc in His name, but rejected by the Lord.

And just to add, that I don't think being filled with the Spirit is necessarily just a one-time experience, He can be received again and again, and also there is an element of maintaining our relationship to Him in a sense of continually being filled.  It's been a long time since I studied this, but in at least one place, I seem to remember there is a verb tense of "be being filled"....which conveys a sense of continuity.

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

4 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Wasn't that a manifestation of the Spirit?!

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
    for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
        to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
            to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
                to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues." - 1 Corinthians 12:7-10

 

Is manifestation and dwelling of the Holy Spirit two separate things?! Can people manifest without having the dwelling Holy Spirit?!

Again, Matthew 7:22 comes to mind... Or may have nothing to do with it?!

 

Thank you!

As far as Matthew 7:22 goes, if God wants to work through an unsaved person to cast out a demon, or speak through a person for some reason (like He spoke through Balaam's donkey, and as in the examples in 1 Samuel 19:18-24 and John 11:45-53), He certainly can. God can use anything He wants to do whatever He wants. But that doesn't mean the instrument He uses knows Him. Plus there are plenty of folks who prophesy falsely in Jesus' name and who pretend to heal and to cast out demons (including some on Christian television stations no doubt, for $$$); and there are lots of unsaved men and women who do all sorts of great works in Jesus' name---building orphanages and feeding the poor and such, and who perform stunts like handling rattlesnakes and drinking poison; and demons can do counterfeit miracles also (magic), which they may do through an unsaved person who claims to be a Christian and who attributes whatever the demons do to the Holy Spirit.

And no, people cannot have genuine manifestations of the Holy Spirit if they do not have the Holy Spirit, although God may work through them to do something, as I explained above, which would be the exception rather than the rule if He did; it's not a sign that Christ is in them. Plus, Jesus said 'By their fruits you will know them' (not merely by their miracles, which demons can imitate; and He even mentioned signs and wonders with regard to being ware of false christs and false prophets, Mark 13:22,23).

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

12 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

a believer may have the Holy Spirit and faith in Christ by the Spirit

Yes, this is the born again experience which is preceded by repentance.

 

The born again believer loves the Lord Jesus, and he/she walks in the Spirit.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
    Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." - Romans 8:9

 

And it makes sense because the works of the flesh are contrary to love, they are contrary to the Spirit.

"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
    and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish." - Galatians 5:17

 

That is why the Lord warn in Matthew 7:21-23 for false prophets who comes in sheep clothing, but walk according to the flesh (inwardly they are ravenous wolves).

 

Glory to God! Amen.

[Albert Finch]

Some say that God doesn't speak to them, but this is not true. They just haven't learned the language of the Spirit. When the Holy Spirit comes, He brings communication with Heaven: dreams, visions, and prophecies all represent union with God. Therefore, YOU MUST BELIEVE GOD CAN GET THROUGH TO YOU.

 What you need is the ability to interpret the influences of God upon your spirit. To sense what the Spirit of God is saying to you is, at its essence, the source of true spiritual discernment. In this regard, it is good to remember John's words:

"These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." -  1 John 2:26-27

Our goal is to develop that inner witness, for when it is united with knowledge of the Word of God, we have a powerful resource added to our arsenal of faith. Remember, the Spirit and the Word always agree. So if you memorize and study the Word of God and walk in the Spirit, you will increasingly possess discernment.
This does not allow us to ignore input from teachers or others whom God may use. While we must maintain sovereignty over our will, God gives us ministries to train and equip us (Ephesians 4:11-12).