Wayne222 Posted April 6, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 478 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,565 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 7,644 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2018 The gospel is the starting place. Before one can learn the way to please God they must be saved. Christ on the cross. Christ raised from the dead. Christ assended into the heavens. Preach forgiveness of sins in his name. Once one believes the gospel. Then teach the things of sanctification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted April 6, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Adstar said: If John Wesley taught this then i believe John wesley was wrong.. Roman 7 is not written by Paul in the past tense it is written in the present tense.. This is present tense scripture:: Romans 7: KJV 14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. {15} For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. {16} If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. {17} Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. {18} For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. {19} For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. {20} Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. {21} I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. {22} For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: {23} But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. {24} O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? {25} I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Paul also said again in present tense.. 1 Timothy 1: KJV 15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." Note Paul never said I was once chief or i was formerly chief.. He said I am Chief,, Present tense.. I would like to re-focus here in the point of the OP. We seem to have strayed off track so if we could, I respectfully ask that any side discussions, even though they are profitable, be tabled or brought up in a new OP. Thanks. As to your assertion that because Paul wrote in the present tense, that means he was testifying as to what He himself actually was experiencing as a Christian, I can understand how someone might think that, but this also presents many conflicts that simply cannot be explained. For example, in Romans 7, Paul says that to will is present with him, but how to perform it, he found not. Yet, in his letter to the Phillipians, he says this: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Phillipiams 2:13 Do you see the obvious contradiction? Again, in Romans 7, Paul talks about his flesh, several times, again in the present tense: “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” Romans 7:25 “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.” Romans 7:18 Yet he prefaced these verses with the clear declaration several verses earlier in the same chapter: “For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” Romans 7:5 Notice the tenses he uses. Past tense. What he is about to share is what he HAD experienced. Then he confirms it again with an even clearer declaration in chapter 8: “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.” Romans 8:8-9 How can Paul say one thing in Romans 7 and disagree with himself twice several verses later? In Romans 7, he talks of being imprisoned to sin and the flesh, and yet in Romans 8, he says that we do not owe the flesh anything. The does not even make sense if chapter 7 was his experience as a follower of Jesus. Are we really to believe Paul was indeed the chief of sinners AFTER his conversion? Really? The same man who kept his body under, the same man who urged us to live holy, sanctified lives could not do so himself? Satan has twisted our understanding of Romans 7 so that, sadly, we can use it for justifying our lack of victory. And by and large, for 1900 years, the church has bought into that lie, because if that was not Paul’s Christian experience, and he really did walk holy before God, then we are in trouble. Why? Because the fact is, we do not know how to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. We have no clue how. Nor do we know how to run our race as if there is only one prize and we certainly do not know how to walk as sojourners here on earth. And for sure, we do not know how to walk as overcomers, in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. So what have we done? We simply have lowered the standard of what the “normal” Christian life should look like. Go to church, pray, do the best you can, read your Bible, avoid ‘bad’ sins.... but as to walking with victory over sin in our lives? Forget it. Impossible, we say, even though the Word says differently. We have chosen to console ourselves with the lie that we are only human and real holiness is ‘just a goal’. And why do we do that? Because we are convinced that holiness is something WE have to do, once we are saved. And we can’t do it. We are very correct in that assessment, but rather than doing what Paul did in Romans 7, and cry out to our God to deliver us from US, to make us victors, no matter the cost, over our old carnal self-loving nature, we have taken the cop-out road of unbelief. And it has left us lukewarm, passionless and without the ability to truly love as Jesus did. And in all this, we think it is ok...totally normal, nothing to get in a tizzy about. We are wrong. Guys, listen. An obedient heart under the law was required. Do it.... or die. But that is not our covenant. Sadly, we have been convinced that the most grace can do is offer us forgiveness. Heck, as long as you sacrificed an offering of a lamb every year, the old covenant did the very same thing! We have been blinded to the fact that obedience under the new covenant is a PROMISE! Listen: “Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.” Ezekiel 36:25-27 Glory to God, do we get it? We are not our potter! God is! He is the one who makes us victors! He is the one who changes us to be Christ-like! I have been sharing the HOW. And what I share God promises will work. BUT.... and this cannot be over-emphasized, we will not see the way to victory until our sin becomes exceedingly sinful to us and we hate the old US. Paul escaped the prison of Romans 7 because he saw himself a wretched man and cried out that he could not be holy..... ever.... unless he received a miracle. And he did! It is now our turn to re-discover what the entire church with few exceptions has missed since the book of Acts....how to have our feet planted on the highway of holiness. I promise you. What I am sharing IS coming. And all who love the light, even if it condemns the ground they stand on, WILL come to the light..... and light their lamps! We are about to have our vision restored. We are about to have our minds renewed. We are about to discover what real victory feels like. And as we clothe ourselves with our new natures, natures that God has promised to transform and to be made truly obedient, the shame of our nakedness will disappear, and our boredom and lack of passion for souls will be replaced with excitement, joy and love for the lost.....and each other! I get it that some look at what I share with hesitation. It is currently not taught. It is unfamiliar. So, take it to God in prayer. Look inside your own heart. Do you long to defeat the sins that now defeat you? Or, are you quite content with forgiveness and bus passes to Heaven while the world cascades into madness? The road we have all walked on, wheat and tares together, where a little sin is winked at, is coming to a split, a fork in the road. The thoughts and intents of our hearts will soon be made manifest by what path we choose. It is called the valley of decision, and it is our future, every single one of us. I pray we all make the right choice. The walk God has for us here in this life is glorious, powerful and more than real. And we who love the light will walk in it, sooner or later, and all HIs sheep WILL hear his voice, guaranteed. Live, bones, live. Blessings, Gideon Edited April 6, 2018 by Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted April 6, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 100 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/18/1964 Share Posted April 6, 2018 From the beginning of Christianity man has been predicting the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted April 6, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goldie said: From the beginning of Christianity man has been predicting the end! Agreed! Yet what is facing this earth today is unprecedented. Over-population, pollution, global warming, water shortages, the disappearance of the middle class, lawlessness, moral decay, and as all this is happening, the church, made to be the salt of the earth, its “preservative” so to speak, has lost its way. We are lukewarm, passionless, bored, worldly, and split into 500+ bickering denominations, each convinced their way is THE way. The world looks on, but instead of shouts of “Behold how they love one another!” as they did in the book of Acts, we are views as hypocrites, thinking that because of a one time prayer, we will enjoy eternity in Heaven while they are sent to an eternal hell and yet we both are doing the same things. Jesus told us that there will come a time that people will say exactly what you have said and stop watching, thus ignoring obvious signs that we are indeed close to the end. It is time we awoke to righteousness and realized how far we have drifted. We have a name that we live, but we are for the most part dead. We have a form of godliness, but deny God has the power to make us godly. We draw near him with our lips, but our hearts? They are for the most part entrenched in this world, this life. And yet, in all this, how few see something is seriously wrong. And fewer still will raise their voice in warning. Look, you could be right. Jesus may not return for one hundred years. But regardless, our lives are supposed to shine with His presence, so that others can come to know Him. But that too does not bother us, for we do not think real victory is even attainable so why sweat it? After all, we have GRACE! May God forgive us and shake us awake, whatever it takes to restore us to the truth of who we are and who Jesus is living inside us. Blessings, Gideon Edited April 6, 2018 by Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted April 6, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 100 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/18/1964 Share Posted April 6, 2018 End times prophecies are like grains of sand on a beach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted April 6, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Goldie said: End times prophecies are like grains of sand on a beach! Ok. Thank you for your input. Gids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted April 7, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.30 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted April 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Goldie said: From the beginning of Christianity man has been predicting the end! And know this that scoffers shall come and say Where is the promise of His coming , for all things continue as they have ............ this is a huge end time sign, specially when its among christainity so big today . less and less think His coming is nigh less and less see the dire signs of the times and just as in days of old , instead of heeding those who warn they follow the massive false ones who are crying PEACE , peace , we shall have peace . Yeah. focus on that for a bit . While fewer and fewer warn., at the same time a massive giagantic movement among christanity and all religions are all hollering LETS HUG for world peace and casting JESUS off as the HEAD and loving up interfaith , WHICH what church leads in that . advice, FLEE any thing to do with a church that has called for interfaith and says all religons are finding God in their own way in their own religion and selling JESUS OUT for unity and world peace. What a snare . So YOU SEE any church focusing or having anything to do with the all inclusive interfaith unity . FLEE it , its of darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted April 7, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.30 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Butero said: Didn't you post this same comment in another thread??? Ask goldie what he thinks about world peace unity . just do it . Now a word . What were the false prophets of the jews focusing on and saying they would have .....................PEACE PEACE what were the few true warning ...........JUDGMENT JUDGMENT REPENT , REPENT . SEE the same pattern today DO WE . yeah its a massive end time sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted April 7, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.30 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Butero said: Didn't you post this same comment in another thread??? What angendas world wide . gay movment , gender identity movments , all to push God out of everything ever wonder why their is such a delusion that is gaining ground at the same time . PEACE , peace world unity and peace . leading RIGHT to the son of perdtion THIS WILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted April 7, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 100 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/18/1964 Share Posted April 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Butero said: Didn't you post this same comment in another thread??? Yes. Its very true is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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