Mishael Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 Violence in the Quran however is required and commanded in order to be a good Muslim. We don't follow the actions of previous prophets, only Jesus when came down during the incarnation to follow is the only person we are to follow. God's laws of the Old Testament are fulfilled by the New Testament, Quran commands Muslims to subjugate non believers, they will convert to Islam, pay the Jizyah in humiliation, or die. Jesus never said this during his time on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mishael said: Nice try but unlike Muslims who are commanded to follow violence, were not under Mosiac law which is the law the Jews follow. So you can quote anything you like from the Old Testament, we Christians don't believe in it. You don't believe in old testament(although revealed by God which all Christians believe) and you believe it contains bronze age history. You have officially apostated and blasphemed. Edited April 21, 2018 by OneGodBeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Debp said: Yes, there is a difference between Catholics and Christian denominations....but Christian denominations ALL accept the main doctrines of the Christian faith. And we all believe in one God revealed in three persons. Catholics have the statues in their churches.... Christian denominations do not. Catholics add the Apocrypha books to the Bible. Christian denominations do not accept the Apocrypha as being the inspired word of God. But aren't Catholics christians? The comment is put like they are separate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishael Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: You don't believe in old testament(although revealed by God which all Christians believe) and you believe it contains bronze age history. You have officially apostated and blasphemed. Nope Christians are not under the Mosiac law according to the words of Jesus, it was a revelation for the children of Israel which is fulfilled by the covenant of Jesus Christ. When the Jews accused Jesus of changing the law he said he came to fufill and complete the law: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Edited April 21, 2018 by Mishael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mishael said: Nope Christians are not under the Mosiac law according to the words of Jesus, it was a revelation for the children of Israel which is fulfilled by the covenant of Jesus Christ. When the Jews accused Jesus of changing the law he said he came to fufil and complete the law: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I have opened a thread for you and see how much you follow the true Christianity https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/221523-do-christians-not-believe-in-old-testament-and-do-they-believe-bible-contains-bronze-age-traditions-something-not-word-of-god/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishael Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 9:29 Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. SURA 9:29 This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination…. Then on Pages 405, 406 … Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr (Unbeliever) and Disgrace. Allah said, until they pay the Jizyah, if they do not choose to embrace Islam, with willing submission, in defeat and subservience, and feel themselves subdued, disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Ibn Kathir on verse 9:29, op cit, pages 404 - 409 The Caliph makes war upon the Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians, provided he has first invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax Jizya…in accordance with the word of Allah Most High: "Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden - who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book - until they pay the poll tax out of hand and are humbled." 9:29 The Caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim…. from the classic manual of Islamic sacred law (the “Reliance of the Traveler”) When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Surah 9:5 You'd want quick to point out this means only certain non Muslims who were hostile to Islam or that the previous verse states to make war only upon those who make war upon you, this is a false interpretation because we only need to go to Tafsir Ibn Kathir: "But if they repent and perform the Salah, and give the Zakah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" "Tafsir of Ibn Kathir", op cit, volume 4. First in verse 9:5, page 375 Abu Bakr As-Siddiq used this and other honorable Ayat (verse or passage) as proof for fighting those who refrained from paying the Zakah. These Ayat allowed fighting people unless, and until, they embrace Islam and implement its ruling and obligations. But then on verse 9:5, page 376: So when the sacred months have passed… meaning, "Upon the end of the four months during which We prohibited you from fighting the idolaters, and which is the grace period We gave them, then fight and kill the idolaters wherever you may find them… verse 9:5, page 376 Then in verse 9:5, page 377: This honorable Ayah was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, "It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolater, every treaty, and every term." Al-Awfi said that Ibn Abbas commented: "No idolater had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara'ah was revealed. verse 9:5, page 377 This passage is one that is primarily offensive. It does allow for defense if pagans attack the Muslims during the time of the treaty or sacred months, beyond that, it calls for offensive aggression against pagans if they attempted to exercise freedom of religion and to remain non-Muslim. This is not a difficult passage to understand. Attack and kill the pagans, if they repent and become Muslims, leave them alone. Clearly, this passage calls for compulsion to Islam, claims otherwise are just plain dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishael Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: I have opened a thread for you and see how much you follow the true Christianity https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/221523-do-christians-not-believe-in-old-testament-and-do-they-believe-bible-contains-bronze-age-traditions-something-not-word-of-god/ See how you Muslims run when you have nothing left to throw at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,020 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,310 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 16,366 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: But aren't Catholics christians? The comment is put like they are separate? Usually when you meet a Catholic, they will say they are a Catholic. They do not say they are a Christian. While Catholics accept the main doctrines of the Christian faith, Catholics add on alot of teachings that are not in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 Just now, Debp said: Usually when you meet a Catholic, they will say they are a Catholic. They do not say they are a Christian. While Catholics accept the main doctrines of the Christian faith, Catholics add on alot of teachings that are not in the Bible. That's what Shias do in Islam who add their own indoctrination. I don't want to discuss what you and Catholics differ from because there are always people who make up their own rituals and beliefs not associated with bible or Quran but I had to bring that up since the user Mishael wants to bring up Shia Sunni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 21, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mishael said: See how you Muslims run when you have nothing left to throw at us. You are far away from Christian belief so no need to talk to u. Edited April 21, 2018 by OneGodBeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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