I've changed my mind. I now believe the "earth" is 6k years old

[Still Alive]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, shiloh357.

Backwards, brother. The fire is indeed a physical fire, but what would happen if a resurrected body that CANNOT DIE is put to the fire? If that body can feel pain, then the punishment is eternal. You're right, though; God WILL be there in the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, making SURE the punished know it is because of how they treated His SON!

Why can't they die? Or, more precisely, why can't God kill them? The only word used in the bible for someone or something other than God that suggests immortality is incorruptible juxtaposed against corruptible. And since the lost are not raised incorruptible for the GWTJ, what's preventing God from Killing them once and for all, especially since he never said he wouldn't kill them. The opposite is also true. He said death, destruction, perish, etc. would be their fate. How much more clear could he have been? 

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Why can't they die? Or, more precisely, why can't God kill them? The only word used in the bible for someone or something other than God that suggests immortality is incorruptible juxtaposed against corruptible. And since the lost are not raised incorruptible for the GWTJ, what's preventing God from Killing them once and for all, especially since he never said he wouldn't kill them. The opposite is also true. He said death, destruction, perish, etc. would be their fate. How much more clear could he have been? 

Shalom, Still Alive.

How do you know this highlighted portion above is true?

Consider this passage:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (This is the FIRST Resurrection at the Beginning of the Millennium.)
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (This is the SECOND Resurrection after the Millennium and just before the GWTJ.)

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.) 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So, from the look of this passage, what's the difference between the FIRST Resurrection and the SECOND Resurrection? I don't see one. If the FIRST Resurrection is like that of the Messiah,...

1 John 3:1-3 (KJV)

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We also know that, WHEN He shall appear, HE shall be like this:

1 Cor 15:42-49 (KJV)

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (a life-giving wind). 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven (the Master from the sky). 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly (from above the sky), such are they also that are heavenly (from above the sky). 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (the image of the One from above the sky).

If the FIRST Resurrection is raised in incorruption, could it be that the SECOND Resurrection will be so raised, as well? It does NOT determine the QUALITY of the Resurrection if one is raised in incorruption. It simply means that the person cannot decay, regardless what they experience.

The first group will be "subjected" to ...

Revelation 21:4 (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The second group will be "subjected" to ...

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So, the second group does not have the luxury of "no pain." Indeed, by contrast, one would EXPECT "pain" for this group!

This means that the first group has "no more death," but the second group doesn't have that luxury, either! So, what is "death" without "decay?" "EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT!"

Matthew 25:41-46 (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[Still Alive]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

How do you know this highlighted portion above is true?

Consider this passage:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (This is the FIRST Resurrection at the Beginning of the Millennium.)
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (This is the SECOND Resurrection after the Millennium and just before the GWTJ.)

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.) 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So, from the look of this passage, what's the difference between the FIRST Resurrection and the SECOND Resurrection? I don't see one. If the FIRST Resurrection is like that of the Messiah,...

1 John 3:1-3 (KJV)

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We also know that, WHEN He shall appear, HE shall be like this:

1 Cor 15:42-49 (KJV)

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (a life-giving wind). 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven (the Master from the sky). 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly (from above the sky), such are they also that are heavenly (from above the sky). 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (the image of the One from above the sky).

If the FIRST Resurrection is raised in incorruption, could it be that the SECOND Resurrection will be so raised, as well? It does NOT determine the QUALITY of the Resurrection if one is raised in incorruption. It simply means that the person cannot decay, regardless what they experience.

The first group will be "subjected" to ...

Revelation 21:4 (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The second group will be "subjected" to ...

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So, the second group does not have the luxury of "no pain." Indeed, by contrast, one would EXPECT "pain" for this group!

This means that the first group has "no more death," but the second group doesn't have that luxury, either! So, what is "death" without "decay?" "EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT!"

Matthew 25:41-46 (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

You hit too many subjects with that post. I will say this, though. It makes a good case for Univeralism, which is really turning my head on its ear. BTW, Matthew 25:46 uses the word Aionion, which means for an age, not eternal. And that age could  be really short, as the age for which the smoke from Sodom really didn't go up all that long. And then what is to happen to them after that age? Same with the other verses here that are, for some odd reason, translated "everlasting" when it should be "for an age", and it does not specify the length of the age. The only age who's length is specified is the thousand years.

[Still Alive]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

So, from the look of this passage, what's the difference between the FIRST Resurrection and the SECOND Resurrection? I don't see one. If the FIRST Resurrection is like that of the Messiah,...

 

So, the first resurrection is of those who accepted Christ's sacrifice, to rule with him during the next age: The Millennium. And then the dead in Christ are resurected to the GWTJ to either be destroyed, utterly, or to their own salvation in the vein that through Adam all die, but through Jesus all live. I'm just thinking out loud here.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Still Alive said:

You hit too many subjects with that post. I will say this, though. It makes a good case for Univeralism, which is really turning my head on its ear. BTW, Matthew 25:46 uses the word Aionion, which means for an age, not eternal. And that age could  be really short, as the age for which the smoke from Sodom really didn't go up all that long. And then what is to happen to them after that age? Same with the other verses here that are, for some odd reason, translated "everlasting" when it should be "for an age", and it does not specify the length of the age. The only age who's length is specified is the thousand years.

Shalom, Still Alive.

Aha! Now you've done it! You've opened up "Pandora's Box!" And, I'll be HAPPY to assist! Thanks for getting into the Greek! (Most don't want me to go there.)

Here's the declension of aioon (a third declension [typically a neuter substantive], such that "oo" is an omega, while "o" is an omicron, and "ee" is an eta, while "e" is an epsilon):

Singular:

Nominative: aioon = an-age (subject)
Genitive: aioonos = of-an-age
Ablative: aioonos = from-an-age
Locative: aiooni = in- or at-an-age
Instrumental: aiooni = with- or by-an-age
Dative: aiooni = to- or for-an-age
Accusative: aioona = an-age (object)

Plural:

Nominative: aioones = ages (subject)
Genitive: aioonoon = of-ages
Ablative: aioonoon = from-ages
Locative: aioosi = in- or at-ages
Instrumental: aioosi = with- or by-ages
Dative: aioosi = to- or for-ages
Accusative: aioonas = ages (object)

And, here is the declension of the adjective forms:

Singular:
Masculine:

Nominative: aioonios = (modifies the masculine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aiooniou = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aioonioo = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonion = (modifies the object)
Vocative: aioonie = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Feminine:

Nominative: aioonia = (modifies the feminine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonias = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aioonia (with an iota subscript) = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonian = (modifies the feminine object)
Vocative: aioonia = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Neuter:

Nominative: aioonion = (modifies the neuter subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aiooniou = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aioonioo (with an iota subscript) = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonion = (modifies the neuter object)
Vocative: aioonion = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Plural:
Masculine:

Nominative: aioonioi = (modifies the masculine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonioon = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aiooniois = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonious = (modifies the object)
Vocative: aioonioi = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Feminine:

Nominative: aiooniai = (modifies the feminine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonioon = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aiooniais = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonias = (modifies the feminine object)
Vocative: aiooniai = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Neuter:

Nominative: aioonia = (modifies the neuter subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonioon = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aiooniois (with an iota subscript) = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonia = (modifies the neuter object)
Vocative: aioonia = (directly addresses the modified subject)

According to the Englishman's Concordance, the adjective form occurs 71 times in the NT. Of those, only 4 are plural; HOWEVER, the noun forms occur 125 times, and of those almost HALF (61 times) are plural! (All of this information is readily available through BibleHub.com.)

Furthermore, it is just BAD theology to base one's entire take on the matter by the adjective form, aioonios! There are PHRASES that involve BOTH nouns and adjectives that describe an understanding of a verse or passage that one won't get strictly by the adjective form! For instance, Ephesians 3:21 has the phrase, "eis pasas tas geneas tou aioonos toon aioonoon," which translates directly to "into all the generations of the age of the ages." Are you going to try to argue that this phrase is limited to a particular age?!

Look, if you're going to study the Greek, by all means, STUDY THE GREEK! But, DON'T forget to look at the phraseology and the context of what you are studying. They are pieces of information that are JUST AS IMPORTANT to understanding as the word choice is!

[Still Alive]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

Aha! Now you've done it! You've opened up "Pandora's Box!" And, I'll be HAPPY to assist! Thanks for getting into the Greek! (Most don't want me to go there.)

Here's the declension of aioon (a third declension [typically a neuter substantive], such that "oo" is an omega, while "o" is an omicron, and "ee" is an eta, while "e" is an epsilon):

Singular:

Nominative: aioon = an-age (subject)
Genitive: aioonos = of-an-age
Ablative: aioonos = from-an-age
Locative: aiooni = in- or at-an-age
Instrumental: aiooni = with- or by-an-age
Dative: aiooni = to- or for-an-age
Accusative: aioona = an-age (object)

Plural:

Nominative: aioones = ages (subject)
Genitive: aioonoon = of-ages
Ablative: aioonoon = from-ages
Locative: aioosi = in- or at-ages
Instrumental: aioosi = with- or by-ages
Dative: aioosi = to- or for-ages
Accusative: aioonas = ages (object)

And, here is the declension of the adjective forms:

Singular:
Masculine:

Nominative: aioonios = (modifies the masculine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aiooniou = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aioonioo = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonion = (modifies the object)
Vocative: aioonie = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Feminine:

Nominative: aioonia = (modifies the feminine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonias = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aioonia (with an iota subscript) = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonian = (modifies the feminine object)
Vocative: aioonia = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Neuter:

Nominative: aioonion = (modifies the neuter subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aiooniou = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aioonioo (with an iota subscript) = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonion = (modifies the neuter object)
Vocative: aioonion = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Plural:
Masculine:

Nominative: aioonioi = (modifies the masculine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonioon = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aiooniois = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonious = (modifies the object)
Vocative: aioonioi = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Feminine:

Nominative: aiooniai = (modifies the feminine subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonioon = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aiooniais = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonias = (modifies the feminine object)
Vocative: aiooniai = (directly addresses the modified subject)

Neuter:

Nominative: aioonia = (modifies the neuter subject)
Genitive/Ablative: aioonioon = of- or from-
Locative/Instrumental/Dative: aiooniois (with an iota subscript) = in- or at- or with- or by- or to- or for-
Accusative: aioonia = (modifies the neuter object)
Vocative: aioonia = (directly addresses the modified subject)

According to the Englishman's Concordance, the adjective form occurs 71 times in the NT. Of those, only 4 are plural; HOWEVER, the noun forms occur 125 times, and of those almost HALF (61 times) are plural! (All of this information is readily available through BibleHub.com.)

Furthermore, it is just BAD theology to base one's entire take on the matter by the adjective form, aioonios! There are PHRASES that involve BOTH nouns and adjectives that describe an understanding of a verse or passage that one won't get strictly by the adjective form! For instance, Ephesians 3:21 has the phrase, "eis pasas tas geneas tou aioonos toon aioonoon," which translates directly to "into all the generations of the age of the ages." Are you going to try to argue that this phrase is limited to a particular age?!

Look, if you're going to study the Greek, by all means, STUDY THE GREEK! But, DON'T forget to look at the phraseology and the context of what you are studying. They are pieces of information that are JUST AS IMPORTANT to understanding as the word choice is!

Ha!

Just before my post I had been watching the video below, which touches on exactly what you are talking about. The interesting (and scary for now) part of this is that this study is leading me to universalism. But I refuse to close my mind to something I've simply been taught by lay-people to run from it. A child of God should fear only God. And I've found it can be helpful to use both biblehub and blueletterbible when it comes to lexicons.

 

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Ha!

Just before my post I had been watching the video below, which touches on exactly what you are talking about. The interesting (and scary for now) part of this is that this study is leading me to universalism. But I refuse to close my mind to something I've simply been taught by lay-people to run from it. A child of God should fear only God. And I've found it can be helpful to use both biblehub and blueletterbible when it comes to lexicons.

 

Shalom, Stay Alive.

I watched this video, and frankly I don't have a problem with it, except for its conclusion. The Greek word "aioon" DOES mean simply "age." To translate it in any other way is confusing at best and deceptive at worst.

HOWEVER, be careful not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater." That is, don't just assume that the eternal nature of punishment doesn't exist because the word means "age."

Oh, and by the way, Peter gave us the information about the ages:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that ...

THE FIRST AGE:

by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (Gen. 1:6-10)

THE DIVIDING EVENT, THE FLOOD:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Gen. 7:17-24)

THE SECOND AGE:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (Rev. 20:11-15)

THE DIVIDING EVENT, THE FIRE:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in allholy conversation and godliness, 
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (Rev. 20:9-11)

THE THIRD AGE:

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (Rev. 21:1-8)

The end of the Second Age is the Millennium, and the "day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" is the Great White Throne Judgment.

[Still Alive]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Stay Alive.

I watched this video, and frankly I don't have a problem with it, except for its conclusion. The Greek word "aioon" DOES mean simply "age." To translate it in any other way is confusing at best and deceptive at worst.

HOWEVER, be careful not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater." That is, don't just assume that the eternal nature of punishment doesn't exist because the word means "age."

Oh, and by the way, Peter gave us the information about the ages:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that ...

THE FIRST AGE:

by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (Gen. 1:6-10)

THE DIVIDING EVENT, THE FLOOD:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Gen. 7:17-24)

THE SECOND AGE:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (Rev. 20:11-15)

THE DIVIDING EVENT, THE FIRE:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in allholy conversation and godliness, 
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (Rev. 20:9-11)

THE THIRD AGE:

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (Rev. 21:1-8)

The end of the Second Age is the Millennium, and the "day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" is the Great White Throne Judgment.

We may agree more than we disagree.

However, FWIW, I divide up the ages almost exactly as that guy did in the video (I mean before I saw the video). But I add a factor he doesn't: There may be endless ages before the six days, and endless ages after the end of death as spoken of in Revelation. The bible doesn't get into it. It's kinda like the bible doesn't get into what Jesus was doing when he was 27.

The only potential age I add to his list is breaking up the first age before the flood. That is, there is the age before the banishment from the Garden and the Tree of Life, followed by the remainder of time before the flood. I definitely see the life and times of Jesus walking the earth as a delimiter between two ages.

[Still Alive]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Stay Alive.

I watched this video, and frankly I don't have a problem with it, except for its conclusion. The Greek word "aioon" DOES mean simply "age." To translate it in any other way is confusing at best and deceptive at worst.

HOWEVER, be careful not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater." That is, don't just assume that the eternal nature of punishment doesn't exist because the word means "age."

Oh, and by the way, Peter gave us the information about the ages:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that ...

THE FIRST AGE:

by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (Gen. 1:6-10)

THE DIVIDING EVENT, THE FLOOD:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Gen. 7:17-24)

THE SECOND AGE:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (Rev. 20:11-15)

THE DIVIDING EVENT, THE FIRE:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in allholy conversation and godliness, 
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (Rev. 20:9-11)

THE THIRD AGE:

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (Rev. 21:1-8)

The end of the Second Age is the Millennium, and the "day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" is the Great White Throne Judgment.

Just to be clear, I now see you are dividing it into a different type of age than I am. i.e. I think we're both right.

It appears you are talking about "earth" ages, while I'm talking about "mankind" ages. And to use the english words and Greek words to say the same thing, I see it as this:

English: The Church age is the second ages of the post flood age.

Greek: The church age is second aionios/aionion the post flood aion.

aion = age

aionios = of the age

[Retrobyter]

On 5/7/2018 at 8:46 AM, Still Alive said:

Just to be clear, I now see you are dividing it into a different type of age than I am. i.e. I think we're both right.

It appears you are talking about "earth" ages, while I'm talking about "mankind" ages. And to use the english words and Greek words to say the same thing, I see it as this:

English: The Church age is the second ages of the post flood age.

Greek: The church age is second aionios/aionion the post flood aion.

aion = age

aionios = of the age

Shalom, Still Alive.

So, are you suggesting that "aioonios" is a participle representing a "SUB-age?"

Edited May 9, 2018 by Retrobyter