Anointing with Oil In Place Of Someone

[LadyKay]

Many times it is done because the person is a family member and the person in need of prayer is another family member out of state. It is not that the elders of the church are too lazy to go visit someone. Just wanted to make that clear. 

[Hidden In Him]

23 hours ago, LadyKay said:

“Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up” James. 5:14, 15

The Bible says that if anyone is sick, then they should call for the elders of the church to pray and be anointed with oil. We do this in my church. But sometimes the person who is sick is not in the service. So someone will come up and asked to be anointed for them in their place. I have always wonder if that works the same? Can you sit in for someone else and be anointed in their place if they are not there? I really don't know if it means the same or not? Thoughts Please. 

I've read through the responses and I have to say I've appreciated nearly all of them. It can be tough taking an absolute hard line on something like this. However, if I had any voice with the leadership who were using this particular practice, I would ask for an answer to the following line of questioning:

The anointing oil represents the outpouring of the power of God to heal, just as when Jesus said "I felt power go out from Me." (Luke 8:46). There the point of contact was the hem of His garment, whereas in James the anointing oil was used. If the power were to be taken to the sick by the substitute through a point of contact such as a handkerchief (Acts 19:12), that would make some sense. But if the person is simply being "anointed in their place," and the point of contact is not actually making contact with the sick person themselves... doesn't it cancel out the entire principle of point of contact? The elders were chosen because the anointing would transfer by the hands of those closest to God directly to the sick.  And what about the practice of laying on of hands? If someone greatly anointed of God were to lay hands on someone standing in another person's place, doesn't the substitute become the recipient of the outpouring or the spiritual gift?

I would think simply speaking the word of healing to the substitute who would then go to the sick person, as Jesus did with the centurion, or using some form of point of contact properly would be better than having a substitute simply stand in their place. Though well intended, this practice seems to undermine several principles taught in the word of God, including the one outlined in James. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Hidden In Him

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

A big part of the debate on this issue comes down to whether or not an individual Christian believes that God heals today or not, and if it is a common or uncommon occurrence if He does.  For one who believes that the Bible teaches healing and other such miracles ceased (or became very rare) after the time of the apostles, they also likely believe that any church or individual that considers it common practice is dabbling in the occult.   For one who believes that God does heal today as an ongoing part of ministry, it becomes how does God want them to do it as a matter of faith and practice.

I often find it difficult to figure out whether someone is saying "God doesn't heal (much or at all) today so things related to healing are often occult based" versus "God does heal today but not in a particular crazy way someone claims it is happening."  In the one case, they are saying stay away from anything having to do with it.  In the other, they are saying figure out what you are supposed to be doing.

There is One Who was doing miracles and said this

Matt 24:24-25

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.
KJV
Because it is my Lord that warns me I shall not look to signs and wonders but in s/Spirit: walk and feed upon His Word... 
 

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

But if God has attached a promise to an action it is not voodoo...

And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored, and you shall be clean.” But Naaman was angry and went away, saying, “Behold, I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call upon the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper. Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?” So he turned and went away in a rage. But his servants came near and said to him, “My father, it is a great word the prophet has spoken to you; will you not do it? Has he actually said to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” So he went down and dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, according to the word of the man of God, and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
(2Ki 5:10-14)
 

Obedience to the message of God is that which heals not the created source but the uncreated source ... As today sometimes yes sometimes no! But the obedience can not be to bring outcome of healing but to Love and Pray for the one who is sick and as I said 'The Will of God be His Will done'. 

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, LadyKay said:

I'm sorry but how would this be voodo? It's in the Bible right? I don't understand?

I did not say that it was but there is a large number of what they call prosperity Gospel faith healers who are practicing in self edification I do and God has to do    When we do an obedience to Scripture it must be with the resolve God's Will be done because what was occurring at the formation of the Church is not occurring today... Voodoo is simply taking the created substance and giving god like structure to it.... oil is oil but when God's Word say take it and apply it- the oil has not changed from being oil but the obedience leaves it in God's perfect doing~ whether healed or not~ it is perfected in the obedience...

[enoob57]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I realize that, but in Namaan's case the uncreated source told the created being to use a piece of creation and in doing so the created being was obedient to the uncreated source and thus healed. (whew)

Yes ... so the voodoo part would be thinking the oil was anything in and of itself!  It is simply a path way God supplied to be of the obedience... The walk of faith is to release all ties to that which passes away and cling to that which our sensual flesh cannot be satisfied with 

1 Cor 2:9-16

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
KJV

[warrior12]

4 hours ago, Davida said:

Seems to me group  prayer for the person would be Biblical and powerful to do the job . There is no example in the Bible of elders anointing a substitute. 

I have to agree with the above.  Earlier I replied and said that I see nothing wrong with the substitute thing.  This was on my mind all the time, don't know why but looking at it as Davida mentioned, there is no example of the practice in the Bible.  While we do want to help our loved ones, we have to be careful of not going beyond scriptural teachings.    

To be frank, I have never heard of this before and it has never been done in any of the churches I have attended.  The Baptist churches does even anoint with oil, that is the ones I have attended.  In fact they only do Baptism and communion and nothing else as far as I know. Even, laying on of hands, speaking in tongues and slaying in the spirit is not seen or done.   I can only think that this is done within the pentecostal churches and maybe only at some as they all have different statement of beliefs.  

[enoob57]

40 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That's right 'in and of itself' it is nothing, but with God's Word of promise attached to it the oil or water or whatever becomes the focus point of healing.

Then understanding God's first creation is, after the Word is fulfilled in all that is to be in conjunction with it, totally destroyed and a New Heaven and New earth in the eternal state...

Rev 21:4-5

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
KJV
this all things new has evidently no resemblance of the old

1 Cor 2:9

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
KJV

I believe this is why we see the Church falling into such disarray because it will not let go of that which God is not keeping... to focus upon the promised that is being kept.

 

[enoob57]

Just now, Yowm said:

'New wine into old wineskins'; 'all that can be shaken will be shaken' and all that, but I fail to see how that is connected to ...

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
(Jas 5:14-15)
 

The subtly of error is so easily missed when the foundation is not built properly... like for instance I ask the children every once in awhile: when you walk or run on the ground do you give thanks to God for His unchanging Word or is it the ground is the ground is the ground.... it is so natural to rely on the created things in and of themselves without thought to God. I have been searching for the why of this verse for quite a few years now

Luke 18:8

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
KJV
we know the answer

Matt 24:8-13

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV

As I watch professing Christians devoting themselves to the things that pass away over the obedience of New Testament realities I understand more the subtly and framework of the error of our day... they are in the disobedience

1 John 2:15-17

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
KJV