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Fidei Defensor

Images: Idols or Visual Aides?

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10 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

One of the ways they will help unite the people with Rome and one another ,  is going to be through this image like worship ,  contemplative and eucharist movment .

I mean ,   Even the defintions Fidei brought about what an image is ,   IS exactly what GOD said not to DO .  do not make any image OF ANYTHING EVEN IN HEAVEN

earth or sea and bow down to it .   But they think , OH we can make images of JESUS or saints , and bow down ,  WRONG YET AGAIN they are .

I would not marvel a bit , or even be surprised at all,  if fidei is big on contemplative prayer too,  that is all over churches as well .

Folks got no idea what is going on ,   and that its trappings come in many forms .    I hear it all over even christain radio now, this big unity clever talk.

they all about this unity now , all about breaking down barriers , and so on .   YET got no idea IT all came from rick warren and Rome as well.

They just don't realize this .    Either fidei is completely ignorant to it,   or she is trying to get buried with honors and made a saint with colors .

Cause either  way , its all I ever hear fidie speak of ,   either ecumunicalism ,  other churches, TRYING to get us to see the good in them .

LIKE a play right out of that book .   She tries to encourage image worship ,  talks of ecuminalism a lot ,   tries and get us too see the good in those churches , WHO DO such things

Folks ifone is focused on stuff like that ,  THEY are already heavily influenced under it ,  and will only get worse .  And they have their agenda .   Get us to just come together .

Only problem with that is ,   We don't just join in unity like that .    but I could say this all day and night ,  and fidei is not going to listen .  HAS fidei even once

heard a word we have said .  NO ,   digs in only deeper no matter what gets said .   THIS IS a horrible sign .  and a sad one too . 

Best to ask Fidei. :noidea:

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2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

They are a problem, because as has already been determined, they are forbidden by scripture.  That should end the argument right there.

The images you are talking about have absolutely no purpose unless they are being used for worship.  I don't have these things in my house.  I don't need them.  They are forbidden anyway and I don't need a Dollar Tree lithograph of Jesus on my wall to worship Him.  They are bogus beyond that, because as I have already pointed out, there is no way they can be accurate to any degree at all.  No one knows what God, and/or Jesus look like anyway.  Why waste so much time attempting to legitimize something that is not allowed?

Even if the image is of the Lord Himself? I believe the heart and spirit of “have no graven images (idols),” is missed. The Israelites were going into a pagan society in Canaan and they had already made the golden calf when Moses was on Mount Sinai. I believe the spirit of the Law (“make no idols,”) was to keep the Israelites from following other gods. The Lord said nothing about “make no images of me, The I AM.” 

We must not follow the letter (legalism) but the spirit (freedom and truth), “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6) and, “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24). 

And to follow the law of Moses as you have advocated is forbidden by the New Covenant, “When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear,” (Hebrews 8:13), “Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant,” (Hebrews 9:15), “But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises,” (Hebrews 8:6), “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law,” (1 Corinthians 15:56), “Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin,” (Romans 3:20), “because the Law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression,” (Romans 4:15), “But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the Law, sin is dead,” (Romans 7:8), “do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose,” (Galatians 2:21), and “For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace,” (Galatians 5:4). 

It is not about following commands or laws, but having faith in Jesus, “” () and having a loving relationship with Him (Matthew 22:36-41) who is the Lord God (Ginosko, Epignosko) and knowing Him (Phillipians 3:8). I recently was reading a Theology book and was furious because it presented Jesus as Judge in our Judaical system and made salvation seem impersonal. The truth is that God personally paid our debt of sin with His flesh and blood and death on the cross and He did it out of love (John 3:16, 1 John 4:8). Its not about laws, it’s about love and faith and grace, it’s anout Jesus who is source of all three, for Jesus came not with the law, “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).  

The Spirit of the Law “have no idols” was to have no other gods but the Lord who is Jesus (Romans 10:9, Phillipians 2:1–1). If the images or paintings or symbols you own are of the Lord Jesus then the law isn’t even violated because they point to the True Triune God. But more importantly we arnt under t the law but under grace (Acts 15:11),  and the Law if you folloed puts a person under a curse, “For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,” (Galatians 3:10) and worse It leads to falling from grace and being cut off from Christ, “For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace.” (Galatians 5:4). 

I for one will not nullify the grace of God (Galatians 2:21). I trust in Jesus’ all sufficient sacrifice and that His New Covenant is superior and has put an end to the Old Covenant which could never save in the first place (Romans 3:20). 

Edited by Fidei Defensor

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10 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Even if the image is of the Lord Himself? I believe the heart and spirit of “have no graven images (idols),” is missed. The Israelites were going into a pagan society in Canaan and they had already made the golden calf when Moses was on Mount Sinai. I believe the spirit of the Law (“make no idols,”) was to keep the Israelites from following other gods. The Lord said nothing about “make no images of me, The I AM.” 

We must not follow the letter (legalism) but the spirit (freedom and truth), “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6) and, “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24). 

And to follow the law of Moses as you have advocated is forbidden by the New Covenant, “When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear,” (Hebrews 8:13), “Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant,” (Hebrews 9:15), “But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises,” (Hebrews 8:6), “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law,” (1 Corinthians 15:56), “Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin,” (Romans 3:20), “because the Law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression,” (Romans 4:15), “But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the Law, sin is dead,” (Romans 7:8), “do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose,” (Galatians 2:21), and “For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace,” (Galatians 5:4). 

It is not about following commands or laws, but having faith in Jesus, “” () and having a loving relationship with Him (Matthew 22:36-41) who is the Lord God (Ginosko, Epignosko) and knowing Him (Phillipians 3:8). I recently was reading a Theology book and was furious because it presented Jesus as Judge in our Judaical system and made salvation seem impersonal. The truth is that God personally paid our debt of sin with His flesh and blood and death on the cross and He did it out of love (John 3:16, 1 John 4:8). Its not about laws, it’s about love and faith and grace, it’s anout Jesus who is source of all three, for Jesus came not with the law, “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).  

The Spirit of the Law “have no idols” was to have no other gods but the Lord who is Jesus (Romans 10:9, Phillipians 2:1–1). If the images or paintings or symbols you own are of the Lord Jesus then the law isn’t even violated because they point to the True Triune God. But more importantly we arnt under t the law but under grace (Acts 15:11),  and the Law if you folloed puts a person under a curse, “For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,” (Galatians 3:10) and worse It leads to falling from grace and being cut off from Christ, “For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace.” (Galatians 5:4). 

I for one will not nullify the grace of God (Galatians 2:21). I trust in Jesus’ all sufficient sacrifice and that His New Covenant is superior and has put an end to the Old Covenant which could never save in the first place (Romans 3:20). 

All you are doing, for reasons I fail to understand, is to attempt to legitimize a practice that is forbidden in the Bible using some really faulty logic.  You are not even dealing with the actual facts at all.  Your defense amounts to, "Yeah, But . . ."

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