Do You Really Love The Sinner Hate The Sin

[Blood Bought 1953]

21 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 What the Gospel IS, and how the Gospel is PREACHED are two different things.   The Gospel is simply the message that God has made it possible for man to be redeemed and to be fully restored back to God.   In the Old Testament, they were looking forward to redemption at the cross and we are looking backward at the cross.   They were placing faith in the Redeemer to come, and we place our faith in the Redeemer who has come.

The thief on the cross was saved.   He did not have to be baptized or indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  He simply recognized who Jesus was and placed faith in him.   The thief recognized the innocence and sinlessness of Jesus, recognized and confessed his own sinfulness, recognized Jesus' true identity as both Messiah and Savior, and asked for salvation. He defended Jesus and proclaimed Jesus to the other thief and  to anyone else who was in ear shot.  Jesus granted salvation to that thief.  All of that was under the Old Covenant.  The thief appropriated the Gospel message by faith in the Redeemer, Jesus.

Repentance is not required for salvation, but it is required and a person who is not genuinely interested in salvation will not be repentant.  Repentance is simply our response to the Gospel expressed in a sincere desire to serve the Lord. If you are not repentant, you probably will not move forward toward faith in Jesus.

Baptism is not required for salvation, but it is required per the commandment of Jesus.  Again, a person who genuinely wants to be saved will happily and thankfully obey

The indwelling the Holy Spirit is the one big difference in the experience of salvation between the OT and NT.  The indwelling of the Holy Spirit was only given to a select few for special purposes in the OT, but is the experience of all believers in the NT.   But believers all the way back in the OT were just as saved then as believers are today.

The Gospel is the good news of God's redemption and mercy to man.    We present the Gospel in terms of God's mercy expressed in the life, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus.   That is how the Gospel is preached. 

Our presentation of the Gospel MUST always begin with the bad news.  The bad news has be to brought out in order to explain why the good news is good. The bad news is man's sinfulness before God and how we got to that point.  The bad news is that due to Adam's sin in the garden there is a curse that has been hanging over the corporate heads of humanity and all men therefore, stand by default, under the judgement of God.   All men have offended God's justice, and are the objects of His contempt. The penalty for this offense is death.   This is what we rightfully deserve and unless there is a change, those who are born in this default condition will have nothing to look forward to in eternity except the Lake of Fire.

God is within His rights to destroy each of us.  That is what we rightfully deserve and in and of ourselves, there is nothing that any man or woman can do that will change their condition and standing before God.  On his own, man is without hope.   You are not okay, you are not basically good, you are a worm, a stench in the nostrils of God, you are an enemy of God and you are ripe for destruction and rightfully so.  Your best deeds on your best days are filthy rags before Him. That is where you stand before God because in your depraved human condition, you are a sinner and there is nothing good about you. As Scripture says:

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." (Rom 3:10-19)

That aspect of our message doesn't sell books, doesn't fill up churches, doesn't win us any friends because it strikes the heart of human pride and shows man just what he is before God.  Until we drive that home to people, they are less likely to understand why good news is "good."  They are less likely to understand what they need to be saved from.   If one's purpose is to build friendships with sinners, one is less likely to present the above reality to sinners in order to protect the friendship. 

The GOOD NEWS is that God, in His grace, has chosen to have mercy upon us.   God is under NO obligation to save us and had He chosen to destroy us, He would have been righteous and just in doing so. Thus, this redemption is totally an act of His grace and nothing more.   But He has chosen to be merciful and redeem us and restore us back to Himself.   God's "program," if you want to call it that, is about restoring mankind back to himself, it is about repairing the relationship that was broken in the Garden of Eden.   That's what the Gospel is.  It is the good news that man can be restored back to a right relationship with God.  

God accomplished this, God made the Gospel possible by sending His Son Jesus to the earth to  be an offering for sin.   Jesus sole purpose in His first coming was to be our Savior in that He was going to be a willing sacrifice for our sin pay our full sin debt and rise again having fully satisfied the justice of God on hour behalf and making it possible for man to restored back into right standing with Him.

 

 

I am borrowing the following from Dr.Harry Ironside.Borrowing heavily would be closer to the truth.....lol

Jesus said, “REPENT ye, and believe the Gospel”  The repentant soul puts his trust in the Lord when the Gospel is revealed to him . No man repents until the Holy Spirit produces repentance in his soul through the Truth. No man believes the Gospel and rests in it for his own salvation until he has judged himself as a needy sinner before God.And this is repentance.

I agree with Mr. Ironside.Totally.Anybody have problems with his take on repentance?

As far as the two thieves who were crucified with Jesus is concerned .......At first both thieves were hateful,demanding Jesus prove Himself by getting them out of their terrible dilemma.The next time we are told anything, we see that one of the thieves had a “ change of mind” ( repentance).He acknowledged his sin fullness and turned to the Savior to save him ( pretty much what we do, huh? )when he asked Jesus to “ remember me, when You arrive at your Kingdom” that pretty much showed that he believed that Jesus would conquer death and the grave— he believed Jesus was who He said He was.His repentance and his belief were enough to save him.That same formula works today.I know it because I have lived it.God bless.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

I'm not denying that. 

 

But you have said that Paul didn't teach repent and believe to sinners and He did.  That's what "repent and turn to God" means to anyone being honest about what the Bible says. 

 

[Guest 1sheep]

4 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

In that verse Paul is talking to believers and is talking to a church that had continued live immorally despite being Christians. He is telling the Church when you repent because you feel you have offended God (Godly sorrow) it's evidence of genuine faith, if it's because you offended the world (Worldly sorrow) it's not. Repent from your sins and believe was not a part of Paul's gospel and was not preached by him. Paul preached believe in Jesus and His work on the cross and nothing more (Faith alone) which is totally different than what Jesus and the original disciples preached to Israel. The gospel to Israel required repentance, baptism, and faith that Jesus was the promised messiah. 

True repentance is a result of accepting the gospel. It's not until after you receive Christ that you can realize that your sins are offensive to God and the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross (Godly sorrow). If you don't have true faith, you may feel guilty for your sins, but only because you hurt others (Worldly sorrow).  

 The church of corinth were  false converts:LUKEWARM. Truly reborn again saints dont act like the world.

Paul is demonstrating that those whom he wrote to were FINALLY truly reborn again in Christ. It was his making them aware of their sins that gave them the knowledge of free  grace .

Faith in grace and godly sorrow go hand in hand . Coming to Christ w/o a godly sorrow is a false conversion! 

Ill stick with John Gills commentary. 

2 Corinthians 7:10

For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation
These words contain a reason, proving that they had received no damage, but profit by the sorrow that had possessed them, from the nature of it, a "godly" sorrow; a sorrow which had God for its author; it did not arise from the power of free will, nor from the dictates of a natural conscience, nor from a work of the law on their hearts, or from a fear of hell and damnation, but it sprung from the free grace of God; it was a gift of his grace, the work of his Spirit, and the produce of his almighty power; being such, which no means, as judgments, mercies, or the most powerful ministry of themselves could effect; it was owing to divine instructions; it was heightened and increased with a discovery of the love of God, and views of pardoning grace and mercy being attended with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ: it had God also for its object, as well as its author; it was a sorrow, (ahla ljmd) , "which is for God", as the Syriac version reads the words, and also the Ethiopic; on the account of God, his honour, interest, and glory; it was a sorrow for sin, because it was committed against a God of infinite holiness, justice, and truth, goodness, grace, and mercy; and it was a sorrow, (kata yeon) , "according to God", according to the mind and will of God; it was, as it is rendered by the Arabic version, "grateful to God"; what he took notice of, observed, and approved of; and was also such a sorrow as bore some resemblance to what in God goes by the name of grieving and repenting, as that he had made man, because of sin; there being in it a displicency with sin, an hatred of it, and a repentance that ever it was committed: moreover, this sorrow is further described, from its salutary operation, it "worketh repentance"; it is the beginning of it, a part of it, an essential part of it, without which there is no true repentance; this produces it, issues in it, even in an ingenuous confession of sin, a forsaking of it, and in bringing forth fruits meet for repentance, in the life and conversation: and this repentance is unto salvation; not the cause or author of it, for that is Christ alone; nor the condition of it, but is itself a blessing of salvation, a part of it, the initial part of it, by which, and faith we enter upon the possession of salvation; it is an evidence of interest in it, and issues in the full enjoyment of it: and this, or repentance, is such as is

[frienduff thaylorde]

To truly love the sinner and hate the sin .    We do as did our LORD .     We warn against the sin .   it would be better to cut off your own hand etc .

WE point to JESUS .  If any man or woman have a child .  DONT you tell that child NOT to go out in the street and play .   Not to take candy or etc from a stranger .

You train your child and correct . YOU INSTRUCT and correct .   you reward the good behavior , YOU PUNISH the bad behavior .

IF we love sinners ,  we expose any sin they in and point to JESUS .  REPENT and BELIEVE . 

[Guest 1sheep]

10 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

That's what I've been saying all along.

 

That's a good commentary for that verse. 

 

We dont agree though. You are saying the godly sorrow comes after. I am not saying nor is scripture nor is Gill. One cannot RECOGNIZE how beautiful grace is without first having a sorrow of their filth in the eyes of God. That is why one collapses in tears! God loves us so much that he provided the way to be with him!! 

Which brings us full circle to why saints need to point a sinner ( that all are guilty under)to the law in order to point him to the grace that fulfilled it! 

1 Timothy 1:9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane,for killers of father or mother, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching…

Edited October 5, 2018 by 1sheep

[Guest 1sheep]

13 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Repentance is not possible without being born again. What I posted in my last response and this below is what I believe.

The commentary you provided agrees with this.

 

No it doesnt. The commentary agrees with what I am saying.

I find it absolutely absurd that you you purport that the Holy Spirit cannot bring a person to knowledge of the law and therefore bring repentance without first being born again. 

What you believe is far different from the truth written. 

[Blood Bought 1953]

20 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

I believe the Holy Spirit can work in an unbelievers life and lead someone in that direction or bring them to a point of despair to where they realize they need God, but to bring them to a point of repentance without knowing Christ, I don't think so. 

"The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."  (John 14:17)
 
"A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory."  (Ephesians 1:13-14)
 

I  believe that salvation and receiving the Holy Spirit are not separate events and since I'm not capable of true repentance on my own without Christ, then yes, I believe that being born again is required before the Holy Spirit can lead us to Godly Sorrow.

The way I see it, we must hear the gospel first, believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day, and then true repentance will follow.

I don't believe that someone can truly repent by their own efforts, without first accepting the gospel.

 

If you are one who does not accept the Gospel,usually due to pride( I don’t need Jesus as a Savior, i’m good enough to make it, I’m going to do things MY WAY) if you TURN TO GOD and change your mind about your sin condition, and believe the Gospel thAt you formerly dismissed, you have repented . You have had “ a change of mind” (metanoia in the Greek).This change of mind was a gift of the Holy Spirit.You possess “ears to hear”.The preaching of the Gospel is the Word being spread like a sower sows seed.Only the hard soil that has been broken by the Holy Spirit will receive it.Nobody comes lest the Spirit draw him....the Spirit draws only those who have been given ears to hear and eyes to see.God is looking for contrite hearts—- those are the only ones ready to receive the Gospel.

 

 

[Guest 1sheep]

15 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

I believe the Holy Spirit can work in an unbelievers life and lead someone in that direction or bring them to a point of despair to where they realize they need God, but to bring them to a point of repentance without knowing Christ, I don't think so. 

"The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."  (John 14:17)
 
"A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory."  (Ephesians 1:13-14)
 

I  believe that salvation and receiving the Holy Spirit are not separate events and since I'm not capable of true repentance on my own without Christ, then yes, I believe that being born again is required before the Holy Spirit can lead us to Godly Sorrow.

The way I see it, we must hear the gospel first, believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day, and then true repentance will follow.

I don't believe that someone can truly repent by their own efforts, without first accepting the gospel.

Im not saying it is of their own effort. Ive made that crystal clear. If you are going to respond to me; respond in kind to what I have actually said. 

You demonstrate that you dont believe that the Holy Spirit can give a godly sorrow that leads to repentance and salvation but scripture disagrees with you. I posted the scripture. The scriptures you posted are not contradictory to what I am saying.

 

I believe by examining your reasoning :

You want the scriptures to explain why you wont tell a person about the law that convicts them in order to lead them to Christ with his free gift of grace.

But simply; it doesnt. 

The natural man doesnt understand the law convicts him unless we who go out to spread the gospel ( through the power of the Holy Spirit) ,tell them. Sinners dont understand that their sins are rebellion to a Holy God. 

That is what you refuse to tell them which is why you are still welcome in the sinners den. Right?  Your friendship method is not working. We are not commanded to go and hang out with the sinners. We are commanded to make fishermen of men.

God uses his redeemed saints  to spread the truth of the gospel . That shouldnt be news to you since it is clearly written. The quabble here is that you wont tell them the whole truth. Which is one reason why I posted the scripture of Paul telling the lukewarm(not yet redeemed) of their sins. It was then that they saw themselves who they really were and it was then that they had the godly sorrow that led to salvation unto  repentance.

You said yourself that you havent seen any conversions. 

Common sense would tell me that perhaps a change is in order to get results. 

The law convicts sinners and drives them to Christ!

Half of the truth is not truth .

 

 

 

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One isunderstanding.

 

2 corinth 2 :1As God’s fellow workers, we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2For He says: “In the time of favor I heard you, and in the day of salvationI helped you.” Behold, now is the time of favor; nowis the day of salvation! 3We put no obstacle in anyone’s way, so that no one can discredit our ministry.…

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.

[LadyKay]

33 minutes ago, PepperS said:

The original quote "Hate the sin, love the sinner," was made by Gandhi. Gandhi was a Hindu.

The Bible says, 

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

Is that where that came from?  Well that is interesting. I myself never use the saying. Except for the title of this thread. But I do hear it a lot whenever I am around other Christians and they are going on about something bad so and so did or is doing. After they get done talking about what so and so is doing, they always end it by saying "well we are to love the sinner but hate the sin."   Which has always left me wondering.  People can and are frustrating from time to time. I think it is much more spiritually healthy to admit that we really do not love this person because of the sin they are doing. Then to ask God to change our hearts in this matter. 

[Guest 1sheep]

13 minutes ago, Davida said:

I also believe if we do not have GOD's LOVE in us , we will not speak the TRUTH that being death & hell are the result of the FALL & speaking the TRUTH in order that people hear it and Repent.  It takes courage & having genuine compassion for others to speak the Truth when it is very unpopular & not politically correct.  

Yes indeed. 

The world these days have totally tried to rewrite  what Gods love looks like. Gods love is the whole truth and nothing but the truth!  

You bet your mammy it takes some courage depending on the demographics especially!!  

It takes boldness.

Ephesians 6:19Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth,divine utterance may be given me, so that I will boldly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains.

 

Here in the USA it is not politically correct to tell people Jesus is the only way to the Father. John 14:6

Times are changing and they are changing quickly. 

We must use wisdom and the leading of the Holy Spirit as to when we open our mouths I think. 

I mean God tells us  :

16Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17But beware of men; for they will hand you over to their councils and flog you in their synagogues.…

I dont think Id be so bold to stand on a milk crate and start telling a rioting crowd of crazy leftists millennials that they are going to hell . LOL

I might not make it out alive. Rather, I would pray over some gospel tracts and stick on their windshield or catch them by themselves. LOL

The whole truth spoken using wisdom and while being as clever as the adversary. 

The LORD has also told us to go out two by two!! These days using a go pro for recording the whole thing is good to cover oneself legally. 

Jesus Sends Out the Disciples
1After this, the Lord appointed seventy-two othersand sent them two by two ahead of Him to everytown and place He was about to visit. 2And He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into His harvest.…