Help with Revelation 12:17

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, tatwo said:

I do not think you handled this well…iamlamad…with Paul clearly establishing a “spiritual/eternal” difference between “Saints” and “gentiles” in Ephesians Ch. 1& 2…with a good look at Ephesians 3 as you suggest…We see Paul…is simply telling the Ephesians in Ch. 3…that he was sent by the Lord Yahshua Christ to reveal the mystery of the “Body of Christ” to the gentiles…and their part in it…as a “people far from God” if you will…clearly.

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Well…you busting on me for not walking in love…and then…referring to me in the likeness of Satan…looks to be a double standard iamlamad.

Additionally…if you believe what you write…like revelation man…I do not consider either of you my brother in Christ as you guys deny Him continuously…on top of that…I actually have done nothing unloving in any case.

Tatwo…:)

I was "getting even" so to speak. I was wrong, and have been corrected by several others here. What I find amazing is that they did not chastise you.  Here is your post that I was answering.

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I do not have the words to frame the folly and the arrogance of this statement.

The fact that you see a distinction between "Jews and Gentiles" in your verbose diatribe shows a complete lack of understanding of the Gospel message...and the kingdom of God...at the most basic level.

In terms of Christ...as Paul the Apostle of Christ Yahshua states..."in Christ" there is no longer "Jew or Gentile...nor slave or free...male and female."

For those in Christ...we are all one...a "new creation"...this new creation is a "spiritual reality"...it has no basis for its existence in anything that is created...its essence is in eternity...outside of creation itself.

If you believe what you wrote...the only fact that you sir...have established...that no one can deny...is that at no time have you heard His voice...nor seen His form...and His Word is not in you.

 Tatwo...:)

 

Folly and arrogance? Is this walking in love with a fellow brother in Christ? At most it is a disagreement. Did you not understand that "the two become one" only in the realm of the SPIRIT? I am a Gentile believer and will always be in my flesh, until I get my resurrection body. In the realm of the Spirit, I am neither Jew nor Gentile, but a part of the Body of Christ. I gave you only one example. Here are others.

1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Paul teaches born again Gentiles, yet, he has no problem calling them Gentiles.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

Here Paul is comparing born again Gentiles with "other Gentiles."

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

This is confirmation of what I was saying: even though Gentiles are born again, we are "in the flesh" still Gentiles, but perhaps uncircumcised Gentiles in the flesh. In the Spirit we are a new creation, neither male nor female, neither Jew nor Gentile.

Here is Paul again talking about born again Gentiles:

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

These are believers in the spirit—a new creation in the spirit; neither male nor female, neither Jew nor Gentile in the spirit—yet in the flesh, they are still Gentiles and Paul has no problem addressing them as Gentiles

1 Corinthians 12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Here Paul, including himself, uses the terms, "Jews or Gentiles." He confirms in the Spirit and by the Holy Spirit we are baptized into the body of Christ. This next verse is the "clincher" so to speak.

Romans 16:4  Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Paul is differentiating between Jewish churches and Gentile churches.

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shows a complete lack of understanding of the Gospel message...and the kingdom of God...at the most basic level.

Does writing such drivel make you feel above others?

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"...this new creation is a "spiritual reality"

See? You knew all along that "neither male nor female" was ONLY referring the the realm of the Spirit. Just the fact that born again couples have children should be proof enough that "neither Jew nor Greek" is only in the realm of the Spirit.

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that at no time have you heard His voice...nor seen His form...and His Word is not in you.

This is where you really crossed the line. Saying this to another believer is not good. Again, does writing something like this cause you to feel proud?

[R. Hartono]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:17 AM, JoeCanada said:

Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus

The apostle John was on the Isle of Patmos when he wrote Revelations. He stated in the opening verse that he “bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ”….Rev 1: 1-2

The souls under the altar were “slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held”…Rev 6:9

In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

Here are other scriptures which cite the “word of God and the testimonies’

Psalm 119:31

I cling to Your testimonies; O LORD, do not put me to shame!

Psalm 119:111

I have inherited Your testimonies forever, For they are the joy of my heart.

Revelation 19:10

Then I fell at his feet to worship him But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Exodus 25:21

"You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the testimony which I will give to you.

Exodus 26:34

"You shall put the mercy seat on the ark of the testimony in the holy of holies.

Exodus 40:20

Then he took the testimony and put it into the ark, and attached the poles to the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark

Exodus 30:6

"You shall put this altar in front of the veil that is near the ark of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is over the ark of the testimony, where I will meet with you.

Deuteronomy 6:17

"You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you.

1 Kings 2:3

"Keep the charge of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to what is written in the Law of Moses, that you may succeed in all that you do and wherever you turn,

Psalm 25:10

All the paths of the LORD are lovingkindness and truth To those who keep His covenant and His testimonies.

So what is……”keeping the word of God, have the Word of God, Hold the word of God”…….. and also “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

It seems to be very significant in these last days.

“….which keep the commandments of God…..” So, which commandments is scripture talking about? I’ve heard many Christians claim that the commandments were done away with, that they were nailed to the cross.

How can this be if  In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

The remnant of her seed is the church is it not?.........  All born again believers?

Certainly Israel, the Jewish people, who escape into the wilderness, they don’t have  “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

And what is meant by....."the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."