Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, Michael37 said: Now you're getting it. There are actually four covariant discernible aspects to our temporal existence as follows: Divine Foreknowledge Divine Predestination Human Volition (aka Freewill) Divine Intervention Obviously we are predestined as to our human form, having no choice as to the features that nature deals us. God foreknows every aspect of us as mentioned, including how we react or respond to everything, which we have an element of choice and control in. God can and does intervene according to His Plan and Purpose for His Creation, as He did with Saul, later Paul, on the road to Damascus. Predestination and Freewill are not mutually exclusive but are interactive elements in much the same way that space and time interact and compliment each other. Yeah. Predestination would throw me for a loop. I see both free will and predestination in scripture and I chalk it up to us having free will within the realm of God's sovereignty. I see it like this...God's sovereignty is a red ring and our free will fills up that space. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Not me said: As far as man having free will. Scripture says; Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB) "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, God has called upon both Heaven and earth to witness against the man, that says man has no free will. But not like the animals have free will, where they can only act according to their nature. For they had no choice as to which nature they received. As with a dog you can feed or beat or love a dog and it will never act like a cat, for it’s against its nature. Man on the other hand is truly free for there are only two possibilities for a sentient being who’s will is free. They can have a good nature or bad. These are the only two possiblilities for a sentient being who’s nature is free. God has created man free whereby man can choose which nature he wants, whether it is good or bad, is totally up to the man himself. We are the choosers. For every creature that has life has to have a nature. God has given man the ability to choose his. Much love in Christ, Not me Animals can do what we deem is bad. Some eat their young or mates lol. Also some attack and kill humans as well..when it comes to animals I feel they just aren't aware what they're doing is wrong. They don't have that level of consciousness or awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, shiloh357 said: No, it doesn't make sense. Free will means you have a choice. For God to violate your free will, you have to actually exist first and you have to actually be able to make a choice. God cannot violate your free will before you exist. Your initial question is simply a non-starter in that regard. Yes, we have souls. Isn't bringing people into existent that may not want to be here a violation of there free will? God knows those who will have a hellish life or even take their life. So why? ( If he knows some will take there lives..why place them here despite knowing that? Why?) Especially when there are many children who may turn out to be still born. What if they desired life ? I still say it's a violation of free will because He knows those who dont want to go through with life. Idk to me to know some will people live hellish lives and decide they'll be born anyway without their say so( yes I know God is Good..but for to pertain to my post) it just seems cruel. I remember reading a story about , I think a Norwegian girl who struggles immensely with her life being abused ( physically/sexually) from the time she was a young child until she asked for assisted suicide at 20... As some may say, since she took that way out she's in hell. It just seems unfair to me. She didn't ask to be here and got dealt the worst hand. I just wonder why God would allow that without intervening. I also read another story of a girl who was repeatedly abused by her mother's boyfriend... And would pray to God over and over to do something. To end it. And it didn't end until she actually told what was hay herself. Because of that lack of intervention she's an atheist now. Idk, these are things I think about ...they just rub me the wrong way. Edited October 24, 2018 by Figure of eighty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 hours ago, JohnD said: Perk of being... you know... God. Yeah. That's His sovereignty. I don't like a few things God does or permits but I do acknowledge He is God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Willa said: It amazes me how many of the children who were unwanted and even abused even by their parents are wanted and cherished by God. He is our true Father and the One who desires us to be a part of His family. He created us for a reason: we are to bring glory to Him showing how He can redeem us from the garbage heap and transform our lives into something beautiful. This I can work with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 513 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,194 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,358 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Figure of eighty said: Animals can do what we deem is bad. Some eat their young or mates lol. Also some attack and kill humans as well..when it comes to animals I feel they just aren't aware what they're doing is wrong. They don't have that level of consciousness or awareness. Yes, animals do and can do many things that are bad. But that is why no sin is attached to them. Because they can only act according to their nature(s). It is the one law of their life they have to act according to their natures. Man was made differently. For He was made in the image and likeness of God. Meaning that which is free in God is free also in man. The ability to choose. But as with all sentient beings that have been given the choice and the freedom to choose. Since each creature has to have a nature to be in creature. As stated above only two nature’s are possible in the nature of things. Either a good nature with all the freedom a good nature brings. Or a bad nature with its natural consequences as well. Much love in Christ, Not me Edited October 24, 2018 by Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.32 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted October 24, 2018 11 hours ago, Figure of eighty said: That's true. God does as he pleases but whether it. Intervenes on our free will or not. I have mixed feeling's because of this ..as well as a hard time trusting him bc of that. You are making what is simple so complex . We don't need to try and figure everything out to our own way of understanding . ALL we need to KNOW is the ONE WHO SAVES and then tell the world OF that savoir . Get built up in sound biblical doctrine . I mean IN TRUTH its very simple . All we need do is BELIEVE in the ONE who GOD did send , CHRIST JESUS, follow Him and get built up in biblical doctrine . Paul said not in vain , The holy scrips are able to make one wise unto SALVATION through faith in Christ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: You are making what is simple so complex . We don't need to try and figure everything out to our own way of understanding . ALL we need to KNOW is the ONE WHO SAVES and then tell the world OF that savoir . Get built up in sound biblical doctrine . I mean IN TRUTH its very simple . All we need do is BELIEVE in the ONE who GOD did send , CHRIST JESUS, follow Him and get built up in biblical doctrine . Paul said not in vain , The holy scrips are able to make one wise unto SALVATION through faith in Christ . I've read the Bible. I believe in God. I still wrestle with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Yowm said: Even the demons acknowledge God. Actually believing in Him means we believe He is Ruler of our lives (whether we like it or not) and we are not god even of our own life. There are things I don't like. I just wish I knew this as a younger Christian so I wouldn't get my hopes up. God doesn't care about our happiness nor is He obligated to fulfill our desires....His main objective is to save us first and foremost. But you're right...we follow him whether we like it or not or whether he gives us the desires of our heart or not. Just wish I knew this now so I wouldn't get my hopes up. Edited October 24, 2018 by Figure of eighty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.32 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Figure of eighty said: I've read the Bible. I believe in God. I still wrestle with that. Why wrestle with that when we can ENJOY THIS .....................REJOICE in HIS salvation and ever rejoice in The mercies of GOD , given us IN CHRIST . Folks IF ever my soul gets disquieted within me , By grace all I need remember is the mercy GOD gave me , the worst of many , given me in Christ with such hope it rejoices the soul . God spared me, I KNOW HE would have spared any , only they WOULD NOT . The only condemnation a man has is NOT how he was created , its not how he was made , ITS that he rejects the LIGHT of CHRIST . SO let the JOY of the LORD be our strength and the salvation of the LORD our very JOY . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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