DEA Posted May 20, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/04/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/03/1983 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Good day to all who come and read this. I am new to the boards, but have found them to be very interesting and enjoyable. So I thought I would throw something out there and see what kind of response I get. With that said I shall get right to the point. I read a book not to long ago entitled "Letters From A Skeptic" by Dr. Gregory A. Boyd. I found it to be very good, but there was one part that made me think. I would really like to see what others think about it. "First, hardly anyone takes all the talk about hell being a place of fire and brimstone literally. The Bible uses a host of metaphors to describe this place, metaphors which would contradict each other if taken literally. So, for example, hell's described as a place of total 'darkness', but also of 'fire'. It is described as a 'pit' but also as a 'lake burning with brimstone.' It is described as a place of punishment, but also of total destruction. Sometimes the inhabitants are portrayed as being 'cast out' from a dinner (in heaven); sometimes 'cast down' into a pit; sometimes whipped by servants. Sometimes they seem rebellious ('gnashing of teeth'), sometimes even sorrowful (Luke 16). The metaphors, you see, vary greatly, and none of them are to be taken as a literal 'snapshot' of what hell is going to be like. Rather, the goal of each is to impress on us that hell is a very bad place! Hell is everything which is opposite of what God wants for humanity. In fact, the term hell itself metaphorically expresses this. 'Hell' in greek is gehenna, and gehenna was a valley outside of Jerusalem which was used as the city's major dump. What ends up in hell, the biblical authors are saying, is simply the refuse of humanity. It is the dumping grounds of the cosmos. It is the ultimate destiny of people who freely choose to live a life God never intended for them. They become 'garbage'. They are 'cast out'. The are 'burned in the fire'. All the metaphors in Scripture point in this direction. A second point is that it is people who put themselves in hell, not God. 'God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance,' the Bible says. If anyone goes to hell, then, this is against God's will! Now God, to be sure, allows these people to go to hell. But He does it by giving such people their own way. Read Romans 1:20-32 carefully. Here Paul says three times about the reprobate Romans that 'God gave them over to do what they wanted to do.' God's judgement was giving the sinners their own way. When a person's heart is beyond hope - remember, we become the decisions that we make - God finally leaves him alone. 'Go your own way,' He says. And in saying this, He casts them into hell. God allows them to become eternalized in their self-creation. God gives the self-addicted sinner who will not accept Him what he wants. But because of this, the sinner misses out on what life was really all about. Having cut himself off from the only lifeline of love, joy, and peace which humanity has, the individual gradually sinks into a wholly loveless, joyless, peaceless existence. He becomes refuse, not suited for the purpose God intended for him. He is now the opposite of everything God intended him to be. His existence is a tragic abortion." I remember going to church as a kid (not that long ago), and being taught that hell is a "lake of fire" and so on. But after reading this, it makes it sound like hell is more just a "state" where God is not, and the fact that God is not there makes it such an aweful place. So I would just like to know what others think of this idea. Is hell really a "lake of fire"? If not, what is hell really like? Thank you for your time to read this, and I hope that you will share with me your thoughts on this issue. Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted May 20, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2005 I know that hell is such an awful place that Jesus was willing to suffer and die just so I would not have to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2005 To quote a line from Ghost Busters "It will be very bad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2005 Good day to all who come and read this. I am new to the boards, but have found them to be very interesting and enjoyable. So I thought I would throw something out there and see what kind of response I get. With that said I shall get right to the point. I read a book not to long ago entitled "Letters From A Skeptic" by Dr. Gregory A. Boyd. I found it to be very good, but there was one part that made me think. I would really like to see what others think about it. "First, hardly anyone takes all the talk about hell being a place of fire and brimstone literally. The Bible uses a host of metaphors to describe this place, metaphors which would contradict each other if taken literally. So, for example, hell's described as a place of total 'darkness', but also of 'fire'. It is described as a 'pit' but also as a 'lake burning with brimstone.' It is described as a place of punishment, but also of total destruction. Sometimes the inhabitants are portrayed as being 'cast out' from a dinner (in heaven); sometimes 'cast down' into a pit; sometimes whipped by servants. Sometimes they seem rebellious ('gnashing of teeth'), sometimes even sorrowful (Luke 16). From what I remember, the Bible talks of heaven and paradise, hades and the lake of fire.Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." This was not heaven, but rather the place the Old Testament saints went too. If you read the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16, it gives a dialogue between the rich man and Abraham. But we know that heaven is not near hell, but is called the 'third heaven' somewhere above or beyond the atmosphere and space.So this then had to be a separate place. When Jesus died, he went to paradise, and then took the Old Testament saints with Him to heaven. With hell I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it is the same thing. In Rev 20:14 it says 'nd death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." So when it refers to fire it is referring to the lake of fire. Is there fire in Hades too? I think so, because in Luke 16 the rich man says " ...that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." When it referrs to the pit, I believe that is the present hell, which is in the earth ( also described as under the earth). Now this is just a thought, but God is going to make a new heaven and earth. So if hell is in the earth, it would be destroyed - which would be one reason there is a 'lake of fire'. Also, the gnashing of teeth isn't a 'rebellious' thing, but is referring to their anguish and despair.Kind of like grinding your teeth, or clamping your jaw at sudden sharp pain. The rest of those 'metaphors' I'm not sure about. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted May 21, 2005 I know that hell is such an awful place that Jesus was willing to suffer and die just so I would not have to go there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Amen Fiosh , I know Jesus spoke more on hell then He did on heaven so we would be warned. It's called a place where the flame is not quenched and the worm does not die. A place of fire and brimstone. A place prepared for the devil and his angles. Yes it's real and yes praise God Jesus suffered and died so we would not have to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bukeye2745 Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2005 My interpretation is such. Hell is the grave. We will all go there unless Messiah returns first. Even Yeshua was there. The question is will the grave hold you? No. Everyone will raise eventually. Does that mean everyone will be saved? No. Will you raise to be with Messiah here in the Kingdom or will you raise at the Great White Throne Judgement to burn and die? Just thought I'd throw my 2 pennies in there.... Hi Fiosh-e-poo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2005 My interpretation is such. Hell is the grave. We will all go there unless Messiah returns first. Even Yeshua was there. The question is will the grave hold you? No. Everyone will raise eventually. Does that mean everyone will be saved? No. Will you raise to be with Messiah here in the Kingdom or will you raise at the Great White Throne Judgement to burn and die? Just thought I'd throw my 2 pennies in there.... Hi Fiosh-e-poo!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Bible says that to be out of the body is to be with Christ. I believe that we will be with Jesus the moment we die, if we are saved. And, we will be re-united with our then glorified bodies at the end of the world. (Fiosh-e-poo ? Hi Buckeye-e-poo That's Ohio, right? I'm coming to your state for a conference in July.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bukeye2745 Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2005 My interpretation is such. Hell is the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesussaves Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 210 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2005 Eternal seperation from God. Never, ever again having the chance to be in the presence of a loving Heavenly Father. Never getting to hear the Lord Jesus say, "Enter in, thou good and faithful servant to the joy of the Lord." No joy, no peace, no love., no Light...only darkness, pain and suffering...for all eternity. NO hope of ever getting out. One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus Christ is Lord. Only those who willingly bow now can have the joy of living with Him eternally. Only those who believe now can make heaven their home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2005 My interpretation is such. Hell is the grave. We will all go there unless Messiah returns first. Even Yeshua was there. The question is will the grave hold you? No. Everyone will raise eventually. Does that mean everyone will be saved? No. Will you raise to be with Messiah here in the Kingdom or will you raise at the Great White Throne Judgement to burn and die? Just thought I'd throw my 2 pennies in there.... Hi Fiosh-e-poo!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Could you show us Scripture that says we remain in the grave?And what about the story in Luke 16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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