The heavenly jerusalem

[Guest InHisLove]

20 For they could not endure the order that was given, "If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned." 21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I tremble with fear." 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven,

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings InHisLove,

You may want to look also at:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

then consider Jesus words:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

We see that in the Gospels the "Kingdom of God" is where the "manifest presence of God" is. If you have a computor Bible do a search on the word "kingdom". I have yet to determine without doubt that the "Kingdom of God" and the "Kingdom of Heaven" are different. They appear often to be used interchangeably and many writers seem to have come to that same conclusion.

In any case God's current Kingdom on this earth is a "spiritual" one made up of believers. He says that where two or three are gathered together in my Name, there I am also. Even if there is only ONE believer, I believe that where HE is, is also the Kingdom of God. What this is, is a mirror image of the TRUE Kingdom of God which is in heaven, and may also be known as the New Jerusalem.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[godrulz]

The kingdom is the rule and reign of God. It is both spiritual now and physical/literal in the future (millennium/eternity).

It is thus referred to as NOW (hearts), but NOT YET (the kingdom has come with King Jesus and will come when He returns in His glory). The kingdom of darkness coexists in the interim between His comings (see the Gospels). Hence the rebellion and suffering that occurs in the world. The cross assured the victory, and His future coming will finally achieve it. To use a World War II analogy: We, the Church, are between D-Day and VE-Day. Even so, come Lord Jesus!

[nebula]

Well, I'm going out on a limb here.  But both the Church and the New Jerusalem are called "the Bride of Christ."  How can this be unless they are one and the same?  Possible?

[Guest InHisLove]

I agree with you nebula. The Church, the bride of Christ, and the heavenly Jerusalem (the new Jerusalem) are one in the same.  Like in marriage, every time Holy Communion is taken, our oath is renewed in the New Covenant set forth by the Lamb of God!  The two become one!

[Ovedya]

Concur with the above statements.  The Bride of Christ, the Church, the Body of Christ, and the New Jerusalem are all the same.  The New Jerusalem is not a physical city in Revelation but a symbol in many aspects of the coming kingdom of God.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings God-man,

The New Jerusalem is not a physical city in Revelation but a symbol in many aspects of the coming kingdom of God.

What we see on this earth is only a reflection of what is TRUE in Heaven. God uses terminology we can understand and relate to in order to describe to us what Heaven is like. (We see as through a glass darkly) So the word "symbol" is in relation to "terminology" and not the "reality".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Ovedya]

Hi DE,

Not sure what you are saying.  All indications point to the case for the New Jerusalem as not being a physical city.  As John points out in the beginnig of Revelation his vision was filled with signs of things to come.

[Guest InHisLove]

What we see on this earth is only a reflection of what is TRUE in Heaven. God uses terminology we can understand and relate to in order to describe to us what Heaven is like. (We see as through a glass darkly) So the word "symbol" is in relation to "terminology" and not the "reality".

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. Matt 11:12 (RSV)

And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Matt 10:7 (RSV)

If it is only a symbol, then what about these few verses?  Is this all symbolism or reality that the kingdom of heaven BEGINS here on earth until the 2nd coming of our Lord?  Is the Kingdom of God the same thing as the Kingdom of Heaven?

[Ovedya]

The kingdom of God is God's general reign from eternity past to eternity future. It comprises eternity without beginning before the foundation of the world, the chosen patriarchs (including the paradise of Adam), the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, the church in the New Testament, the coming millennial kingdom (including its heavenly part, the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens, and its earthly part, the Messianic kingdom), and the new heaven and new earth with the New Jerusalem in eternity without end. The kingdom of the heavens is a specific section within the kingdom of God, a section composed only of the church today and the heavenly part of the coming millennial kingdom. Hence, in the New Testament, especially in the other three Gospels, the kingdom of the heavens, a section of the kingdom of God, is also called "the kingdom of God." In the Old Testament the kingdom of God, generally, already existed with the nation of Israel (21:43); the kingdom of the heavens, specifically, had still not come, and it only drew near when John the Baptist came (3:1-2; 11:11-12).