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7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Nope. Just reading what was written about what Gabriel said to Daniel:

Daniel 11:1-4 (KJV)

1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others (other kingdoms) beside those.

We're seeing four individual kings of Persia listed, and then we're seeing a mighty king of Grecia (Macedonia) stand up; however, almost immediately, his kingdom shall be divided toward "the four winds of heaven," making "other kingdoms" beside Persia or Grecia! Who else could it be but Alexander the Great? It doesn't have to name him; he's known by the fate of his kingdom! 

It's said, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." And, as I've said before, the corollary to this is "Those who don't learn from history about a prophecy's fulfillment are doomed to think the prophecy is yet to be fulfilled in the future!"

So daniel never said Alexander the great.You just ASSUMED that is who he is talking about so you claimed that i said soething about Alexander the great and then you claimed i installed a 2000 year gap when i didnt.

Well,you and the pharisees agree.They believed and taught thier students it was Alexander  the great also.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So daniel never said Alexander the great.You just ASSUMED that is who he is talking about so you claimed that i said soething about Alexander the great and then you claimed i installed a 2000 year gap when i didnt.

Well,you and the pharisees agree.They believed and taught thier students it was Alexander  the great also.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Of course I came to that conclusion, but in a LOGICAL way! Please, tell me who YOU believe this person in Daniel 11:3-4 is! I'll await your response.

Oh, Pharisees, Smariesees! Y'know, there are MANY pretribulation rapturists who believe it was Alexander the Great, also. So, I'm really curious who you think it is.

Edited by Retrobyter

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The person sent to Daniel in chapter 10 was sent to help daniel uderstand the vision he had in chapter 8.The vision of the ram and goat and the first horn and the four kingdoms which would stand out of the nations.

The forth king in daniel 2 is the forth kingdom who becomes powerful through his riches and his  kingdom is devided.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-2.htm

The little horn declaired  its independence as the forth kingdom devided.

Edited by Shilohsfoal

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3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Of course I came to that conclusion, but in a LOGICAL way! Please, tell me who YOU believe this person in Daniel 11:3-4 is! I'll await your response.

Oh, Pharisees, Smariesees! Y'know, there are MANY pretribulation rapturists who believe it was Alexander the Great, also. So, I'm really curious who you think it is.

The "king of the north" is the "beast" or leader(s) of the one world order that will be started before satan comes, that is why Daniel 11 was quoted by Jesus Christ himself in Matthew 24 as a prophecy of the great Tribulation at the end.

 

Daniel 11:15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.

This "king" will come and take the "most fenced cities", if people understand ancient-middle age warfare, when an enemy is trying to conquer an entire nation they would build or take control of the castles because each castle was built in strategic locations to have dominion over the region as the soldiers from the castle can quickly be sent out to stop any uprisings quickly instead of an army needing to be sent from miles away (great example is William the Conquer's conquest of England in 1066).  Since Jesus quoted Daniel 11 as part of the Tribulation, we know from the book Revelation that satan's kingdom of Babylon will rule the entire world at that time, so it starts to make sense that the northern kingdom is satan's kingdom which was started by the false prophet and the beast.

 

Daniel 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Now the "vile person" is satan/dragon, when in Revelations the beast is wounded but the dragon healed the beast.  "Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" The "vile person" is of course satan, because he took control of his kingdom when he comes down "peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries".  This of course is become satan will be coming pretending to be Jesus, and he will say kind things and do miracles to "flatter" the world with his "kindness" and power so they start to worship him like in Rev 13. Like told by Jesus in "Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

 

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Daniel 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

The Daniel 11:31 is the prophecy Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24, that is when satan enters the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, proclaiming himself to be God and will rule the Earth from the Temple's inner sanctuary where the ark of the covenant was in the first Temple. Now the "wickedly against the covenant" is when satan will try and spiritual kill the Christians on earth which have the "covenant" of God (Revelation 12:12), but it is not literally killing.  satan will be trying to "corrupt by flatteries", which brings us back to Matthew 24 of the wonders to deceive the world as he is pretending to be Jesus/God at this time, so trying to get people to receive the mark of the beast by worshipping him as if he was God the Father.

Verse 32 gets into the very end of the Tribulation, some of the Christians "that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits".  This is talking about the church of Smyrna/Two Witness (which are the same group of people), they will "instruct" many in the world of God's testimony, then "they shall fall by the sword" which just means spiritually attacked, since in very 34 it says "many shall cleave to them with flatteries".  So even after the two witness finish their testimony and "die", it just means they are over powered and spiritually attacked by the lies of satan to stop their testimony.  In verse 35 it tells us why, to "try them, and to purge, and to make them white" and prove themselves.  While the Church of Philadelphia will not need to be tried as they will be doing as Jesus said in Matthew 24 "run into the mountains".

 

Second Witness:

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Edited by Mal'ak

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1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The person sent to Daniel in chapter 10 was sent to help Daniel understand the vision he had in chapter 8. The vision of the ram and goat and the first horn and the four kingdoms which would stand out of the nations.

The fourth king in Daniel 2 is the fourth kingdom who becomes powerful through his riches and his  kingdom is divided.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-2.htm

The little horn declared its independence as the fourth kingdom divided.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

So, let me get this straight: You're merging ALL the prophecies into ONE? You're not wrong that the king in 11:3-4 is the same as the first horn of the goat. He explains who the ram and the goat represent in verses 20-25:

Daniel 8:15-27 (KJV)

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said,

"Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision."

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me,

"Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end (of the Persian kingdom) shall be the vision."

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. 19 And he said,

"Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia (Macedonia): and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king (Alexander the Great). 22 Now that (great horn) being broken (June 10, 323 BCE), whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms (Macedonia/Greece under Cassander, Asia Minor under Lysimachus, Babylon and Persia under Seleucus I Nicator, and Egypt and the Holy Land under Ptolemy I Soter, all by 301 BCE) shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his (Alexander's) power.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

HOWEVER, neither chapter 8 nor chapter 11 is about OUR future!

So, while 11:1-2 is about Daniel's time in Persia with that country's last four significant kings, you ALLEGORIZE (sometimes erroneously called "spiritualize") the rest of the chapter about the "end times" which begins in OUR future! Therefore, YOUR gap is between verses 2 and 3! And, since you see "kingdoms" instead of "kings," who knows how many THOUSANDS of years YOU'VE added to that gap!

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21 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

So, let me get this straight: You're merging ALL the prophecies into ONE? You're not wrong that the king in 11:3-4 is the same as the first horn of the goat. He explains who the ram and the goat represent in verses 20-25:

Daniel 8:15-27 (KJV)

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said,

"Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision."

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me,

"Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end (of the Persian kingdom) shall be the vision."

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. 19 And he said,

"Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia (Macedonia): and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king (Alexander the Great). 22 Now that (great horn) being broken (June 10, 323 BCE), whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms (Macedonia/Greece under Cassander, Asia Minor under Lysimachus, Babylon and Persia under Seleucus I Nicator, and Egypt and the Holy Land under Ptolemy I Soter, all by 301 BCE) shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his (Alexander's) power.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

HOWEVER, neither chapter 8 nor chapter 11 is about OUR future!

So, while 11:1-2 is about Daniel's time in Persia with that country's last four significant kings, you ALLEGORIZE (sometimes erroneously called "spiritualize") the rest of the chapter about the "end times" which begins in OUR future! Therefore, YOUR gap is between verses 2 and 3! And, since you see "kingdoms" instead of "kings," who knows how many THOUSANDS of years YOU'VE added to that gap!

So nowyouclaom im calling the four kingdoms when Grabriel is the one who said they are kingdoms.

Actually ,gabriel said they are kingdoms.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-22.htm

And again.I still have not added thousands of years between verse two and three.I never said the four kings i, verse 2 were persian.You did.

The only person here who has added tjousands of years to these events is you because you claim these events took place thousamds of years ago but you claim the resurrection which takes place the same time of this kings death in daniel 11:45 hasnt happen yet while claiming that king died thousands of year before.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm

 

As the prophecy states,many who sleep in the dust of the earth,shall awake.

Paul wrote about tbis in 2 thes  stating this man of destruction would die when christ comes and gathers his saints to him.

https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-8.htm

You claim this man died thousands of years ago but you say the resurection takes place thousands of years later and not "at that time"as Daniel wrote.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Mal'ak said:

The "king of the north" is the "beast" or leader(s) of the one world order that will be started before satan comes, that is why Daniel 11 was quoted by Jesus Christ himself in Matthew 24 as a prophecy of the great Tribulation at the end.

 

Daniel 11:15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.

This "king" will come and take the "most fenced cities", if people understand ancient-middle age warfare, when an enemy is trying to conquer an entire nation they would build or take control of the castles because each castle was built in strategic locations to have dominion over the region as the soldiers from the castle can quickly be sent out to stop any uprisings quickly instead of an army needing to be sent from miles away (great example is William the Conquer's conquest of England in 1066).  Since Jesus quoted Daniel 11 as part of the Tribulation, we know from the book Revelation that satan's kingdom of Babylon will rule the entire world at that time, so it starts to make sense that the northern kingdom is satan's kingdom which was started by the false prophet and the beast.

 

Daniel 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Now the "vile person" is satan/dragon, when in Revelations the beast is wounded but the dragon healed the beast.  "Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" The "vile person" is of course satan, because he took control of his kingdom when he comes down "peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries".  This of course is become satan will be coming pretending to be Jesus, and he will say kind things and do miracles to "flatter" the world with his "kindness" and power so they start to worship him like in Rev 13. Like told by Jesus in "Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

 

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Daniel 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

The Daniel 11:31 is the prophecy Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24, that is when satan enters the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, proclaiming himself to be God and will rule the Earth from the Temple's inner sanctuary where the ark of the covenant was in the first Temple. Now the "wickedly against the covenant" is when satan will try and spiritual kill the Christians on earth which have the "covenant" of God (Revelation 12:12), but it is not literally killing.  satan will be trying to "corrupt by flatteries", which brings us back to Matthew 24 of the wonders to deceive the world as he is pretending to be Jesus/God at this time, so trying to get people to receive the mark of the beast by worshipping him as if he was God the Father.

Verse 32 gets into the very end of the Tribulation, some of the Christians "that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits".  This is talking about the church of Smyrna/Two Witness (which are the same group of people), they will "instruct" many in the world of God's testimony, then "they shall fall by the sword" which just means spiritually attacked, since in very 34 it says "many shall cleave to them with flatteries".  So even after the two witness finish their testimony and "die", it just means they are over powered and spiritually attacked by the lies of satan to stop their testimony.  In verse 35 it tells us why, to "try them, and to purge, and to make them white" and prove themselves.  While the Church of P will not need to be tried as they will be doing as Jesus said in Matthew 24 "run into the mountains".

Second Witness:

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Shalom, Mal'ak (so you name yourself "angel" in Hebrew?)

"Et tu, Brute?" (Latin for "And you [too], Brutus?")

No, the "king of the North" varies with the timing of the history being told, but generally, it is the king to ISRAEL'S north, which in the years following Daniel's time, were most often the kings of the Seleucid Empire which stemmed from Syria to Persia.

11:15 is about Antiochus III the Great. He besieged the fortified city of Sidon to flush the Egyptian commander Scopas out of hiding. He surrendered in 199 BCE in exchange for safe passage out of the city back to Egypt. He and his troops were allowed o leave the city naked after giving up their weapons.

11:20 and 21 are about Antiochus III's eldest son, Seleucus IV Philopater. He had to greatly increase taxes on his kingdom because of Rome's heavy debt burden imposed upon him, and because of trades of hostages - his son Demetrius, the heir to the throne, (made hostage) and his younger brother, Antiochus IV (freed) - Antiochus IV was allowed to begin his designs to take over the throne through intrigue. Antiochus IV is the "vile person." 

And, it is HE who fulfilled 11:31-32a on the 15th of the month of Kislev (December) in 168 BCE. The Hasmoneans, starting with Mattathias the priest and his five sons (including Judas Maccabee or Yhudah the "Hammer"), were the ones who fulfilled 32b-35, NOT "Christians in the future!"

Furthermore, Yeshua` the Messiah didn't quote from Daniel 11, he quoted from Daniel 9.

I'll say it again: "Those who don't learn how prophecy was fulfilled in the past are DOOMED to believe that the prophecy must be fulfilled in the future!" (And, that's NOT a good thing!)

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2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So, now you claim I'm calling them "four kingdoms" when Gabriel is the one who said they are kingdoms.

Actually, Gabriel said they are "kingdoms."

Daniel 8:22 (KJV)

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Please take your time to type correctly. I'm having a bit of a hard time making out what you're saying.

WITHIN the vision of chapter 8, yes, they were called "kingdoms," because the focus was on the NATIONS, not the people. HOWEVER, in chapter 11, we are looking at the succession of individuals!

Anyway, the only problem to which I was alluding was that you called "the little horn" a "kingdom," instead of a "king."

Daniel 8:9-11 (KJV)

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

And again, I still have not added thousands of years between verse two and three. I never said the four kings in verse 2 were Persian. You did.

No, GABRIEL did:

Daniel 11:2 (KJV)

2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The only person here who has added thousands of years to these events is you because you claim these events took place thousands of years ago but you claim the resurrection which takes place the same time of this king's death in Daniel 11:45 hasn't happen yet while claiming that king died thousands of year before.

Daniel 12:2 (KJV)

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

As the prophecy states, "many who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."

Paul wrote about this in 2 Thes. stating this man of destruction would die when Christ comes and gathers His saints to Him.

2 Thes. 2:8-14 (KJV)

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You claim this man died thousands of years ago but you say the resurection takes place thousands of years later and not "at that time"as Daniel wrote.

You're partially correct. Herod the Great, about whom Daniel 11:45 is talking, DID die in 4 BCE! Adding 2019 to this and subtracting one since there is no year zero, we get that he died 2022 years ago!

Daniel 12:1-2 (KJV)

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

As I was trying to explain to you, the words "at that time" are an UNFORTUNATE interpretation of the Hebrew word "uwVaa`eet," which really means "and in the time." So, let's look at this passage again with these words substituted:

Daniel 12:1-2 (KJV)

1 And in the time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and in the time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

And, one should know that this phrase is about the coming of the Messiah! The first part of Dan. 12:1 is about the Messiah's FIRST coming, and the second part of Dan. 12:1 through 12:2 is about the Messiah's SECOND coming! So, YES, I see at least 2,000 years or so between these two comings. Notice, too, that the "time of trouble" is sandwiched between these two comings!

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6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Please take your time to type correctly. I'm having a bit of a hard time making out what you're saying.

WITHIN the vision of chapter 8, yes, they were called "kingdoms," because the focus was on the NATIONS, not the people. HOWEVER, in chapter 11, we are looking at the succession of individuals!

Anyway, the only problem to which I was alluding was that you called "the little horn" a "kingdom," instead of a "king."

Daniel 8:9-11 (KJV)

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

No, GABRIEL did:

Daniel 11:2 (KJV)

2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

You're partially correct. Herod the Great, about whom Daniel 11:45 is talking, DID die in 4 BCE! Adding 2019 to this and subtracting one since there is no year zero, we get that he died 2022 years ago!

Daniel 12:1-2 (KJV)

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

As I was trying to explain to you, the words "at that time" are an UNFORTUNATE interpretation of the Hebrew word "uwVaa`eet," which really means "and in the time." So, let's look at this passage again with these words substituted:

Daniel 12:1-2 (KJV)

1 And in the time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and in the time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

And, one should know that this phrase is about the coming of the Messiah! The first part of Dan. 12:1 is about the Messiah's FIRST coming, and the second part of Dan. 12:1 through 12:2 is about the Messiah's SECOND coming! So, YES, I see at least 2,000 years or so between these two comings. Notice, too, that the "time of trouble" is sandwiched between these two comings!

Well,i dont see where it says anythig about adding tbousands of years between the time of the man of destructions death and the coming of christ.

Thats just your addition.

If you wish to believe te time of the end was thousands of years ago then youcan believe it.Im not swallowing that camel.

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