Dr. Wallter Martin talk on profits, false prophecy and obedience , specific exacting obedience to God's word and instruction

[Neighbor]

To Moderator: This video is longer than 20 minutes, it is some 36 minutes long. I think it can be scanned  with high confidence in far less than 20 minutes.

I hope to use it as a basis  of reference for  a thread or two  on hearing excellently the instruction of God, following that instruction  exactly, and not man's explanation of God's instruction instead. And then also as a reference for conversation on false prophets and  their predictions boosted by many cults about timing of Jesus return.

 Thanks for considering this video.

[Neighbor]

Many if not most Christians as well as some non believers have heard of Dr. Martin, read  a book or scanned into one on Cults written by him. I don't know at this point how many can put a voice and a personality with the information  written. I have found this recent viewing to be of help for me in that regard.

The thirty 36 minutes or so of the entire presentation  breaks out into  related subjects and starts with the use of 1 Kings 13  to share for us today of our own responsibility in regard to hearing God carefully following His word, and being careful not to vary from that nor to listen to a man's interpretation and instruction instead. That there is false prophet-ing and false testimony being given in the name of the Lord.

It is a very serious subject for the consequence is severe for failure of the hearer to reject the prophet, as is referenced within  Jeremiah 23 by Dr. Martin.   Dr. Martin's personable manner of presentation makes for  a good fleshing out of this hard truth, all without doing what he is warning his audience against.

Building upon that he adds example of the use of prophecy and the business of prophet-ing and profiting in date setting of the return of our Lord and savior Jesus. All for the purpose of sharing a view that the date setters are  false prophets to be avoided for there is warning from God in the Bible not to heed them. And that those that do suffer out of their own doing for failing to  have read and heeded the word of God and of how in an exact manner to reject the false prophets.  I think it a great investment in time  to listen and to read the Bible portions he is referencing. Might be a real time saver to listen and then avoid listening and reading the false prophecies as they come to take up time. The mission of the false prophet being  to divert from the word of God.

 I do hope that many will  reacquaint with the message, voice, personality, and find gain in it that will save time and much grief that false predictors cause and have been causing for centuries  so far.

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

I don't know at this point how many can put a voice and a personality with the information  written. I have found this recent viewing to be of help for me in that regard.

I used to attend Dr. Martin's adult Sunday school classes at MelodyLand in Anaheim, Ca, and later at Newport-Mesa Christian Center in Costa Mesa, Ca. He had a 1 hour radio program Monday through Friday which I listened to at work, and a 3 hour program on Sunday nights (or was it Saturday night) that I listened to faithfully. So most weeks, I was listening to Walter 9 or more hours per week.

I'd estimate that I have listened to him for over 1400 hours, so I understand what you mean by getting a sense of his voice and personality. I still cannot read his writings, without hearing his voice in my head, LOL.

[Neighbor]

21 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I used to attend Dr. Martin's adult Sunday school classes at MelodyLand in Anaheim, Ca, and later at Newport-Mesa Christian Center in Costa Mesa, Ca. He had a 1 hour radio program Monday through Friday which I listened to at work, and a 3 hour program on Sunday nights (or was it Saturday night) that I listened to faithfully. So most weeks, I was listening to Walter 9 or more hours per week.

I'd estimate that I have listened to him for over 1400 hours, so I understand what you mean by getting a sense of his voice and personality. I still cannot read his writings, without hearing his voice in my head, LOL.

Oh Melodyland, I had left that era, and times deep in the recesses of my memory bank. Wow flashbacks.

Please when you find you have time share more. Of that time, place, teaching, and what  of the word of God has been emphasized to your benefit from that resource. Thanks.

[Omegaman 3.0]

28 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Please when you find you have time share more. Of that time, place, teaching, and what  of the word of God has been emphasized to your benefit from that resource. Thanks.

Well, I am not entirely sure what you are asking me here, but I will say that I lived in Anaheim when I became a Christian, 1979, if I recall correctly. In nearby Santa Ana, there was a tiny local radio station (KYMS) that was just 3000 watts. I was listening to that station in my car, just turning the dial, looking for sounds. This one had some pleasant music, so I listened. I was not paying a lot of attention to the Lyrics, just the music. Between sets, they played their station Jingle "singing a new song, KYMS" and I thought "yeah, I have never heard any of these". I did not realize yet, what I was listening to, but within a few days, I realized it was Christian content. As a new Christian, I was interested, and that is how I came to be aquainted with Walter Martin on his Bible Answer Man program. Similarly, I became aquainted with Dr. John Warwick Montgomery, also a brilliant man, who hosted a 3 hour program on KYMS called Christianity on Trial. I became a steady listener of his, and attended a few multi-night seminars, and a few other events where he was featured, I even spent 2 weeks in Israel and Cypress with him in 1986. I still have very occasional email contact with him, and in 2017 he invited me to join him for the 4ooth anniversary of the reformation.

Anyway, that is way off the question you asked, but just giving some background to how I was benefited by the teaching of others during that early part of my Christian walk.

With Dr. Martin, I learned a lot of basic Bible stuff, I suppose it was almost systematic theology, as well as much about the cults and apologetics - in this case mostly my observing it in action.

With Dr. Montgomery, I learned apologetics in a more formal sense, answers to objections, logic, technique, etc.

From both, I learned a lot about hermeneutics and exegesis.

This will turn many here at Worthy off, but I do not make a secret of the fact that I accept Historic Premillennialism. To some degree, to a great degree, that is due to Walter Martin. I did not come to that understanding due to his teaching (though it turns out that was his view) but rather because he clued me in to that fact that there were other eschatological views than a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. I just new, from the teaching at my church, listening to TBN, reading Hal Lindsey's book "The Late Great Planet Earth", "The Word for Today" radio program (Pastor Chuck Smith), and a host of things that tended to program my newbie Christian mind into thinking that all Christians believed in a pre-tribulation rapture.

Because Dr. Martin informed me that there were other views, I could not help but wonder, how that could be so? Dr. Martin had taught be certain things, like using scripture to test all things, always noting scripture as a whole, and dilgently checking context. So, I decided to embark on a project - I was bond and determined to discover what the Bible had to say on the topic. I read the Bible cover to cover, with the intention of writing every verse down, that seemed to refer to the end times. I began writing these out on a relatively new product, called Post-It notes.

I did this over an 8 month period and had a 4 foot by 8 foot sheet of particle board mostly covered in yellow paper squares. Then came the task of trying to take them and put them into an order which could exist in harmony, no contradictions. My main goal there was to discover if the Bible gave an order to the sequence of events in the end time, but primarily the events of the rapture, and the tribulation, since it was that issue that drove to to study this out. What I discovered, was that there was very insufficient evidence, to support a pre-tribulation rapture, and strong reasons to conclude a post-tribulation rapture. I did not like this conclusion. I seemed at odds with what the teachings of so many influences in my life had been. It was hard to face, but I finally had to conclude, that all of my Christian friends, and the teachings of every church I had ever attended, were likely incorrect on this point.

Eventually I had to admit, that what I had held to be true, was error, and I could not go against the teaching of scripture to go with the crowd in good conscious. It is interesting to me to note, that my time at Worthy here, 15 years now, has only severed ti strengthen that belief. When I started here, there were not many post-tribulation rapturists, who had come out of the closet. When I would get into discussions about that topic, I would guess that there was usually 4 or 5 to take a contrary view. It could be overwhelming at times. However, their arguments usually made me think, and their sincerity and good intentions were there, so I never saw them as enemies in any way. At the same time, the more they tried to make a persuasive case, the more the persuaded me, that they really did not have a good case, scripturally. So, I will always be indebted to them for driving be to be a Berean on the topic, the fact that only half a dozen have changed their minds, does not bother me, as the issue is not of critical importance.

Other than this one topic, I cannot think of any thing from that era, that has specifically impacted me, just overall honing of my faith and love of Bible study and growth in getting to know and love God.

 

[Neighbor]

Thanks! Will share/discuss of that time in So. Cal, and perhaps of Chuck Smith and others, in general  soon, as time permits.

 I keep looking for an old Chuck Smith tract/folder presentation on "57 comparisons between Roman Catholicism and Christianity". I know I still have it, but in what folder ??? I want to restudy that one too.

 

 

[Wayne222]

This was a great topic . I talked to Walter one time on the phone. I listen to him on the bible answer man. I was not much into chuck smith. But I attended a CalveryChapel in nj. I have always been post view on the rature. I cannot see any other way. But that's is not a salvation issue. Saved people hold to each view. Walter Martin was fun to listen to. He passed on too soon.

[Neighbor]

5 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

This was a great topic . I talked to Walter one time on the phone. I listen to him on the bible answer man. I was not much into chuck smith. But I attended a CalveryChapel in nj. I have always been post view on the rature. I cannot see any other way. But that's is not a salvation issue. Saved people hold to each view. Walter Martin was fun to listen to. He passed on too soon.

Hopefully, once individuals have come across this thread and some actually view the video there might be some conversation on it's points of interest and use. I plan to watch it again and dig into the two areas of the Bible directly referenced in the presentation.

[Neighbor]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Eventually I had to admit, that what I had held to be true, was error, and I could not go against the teaching of scripture to go with the crowd in good conscious.

Seems like a healthy admission.

 Ah, I guess what with my exposure to so many "learned ones" I have become the world's only pre-wrath mid-trib freewilled Calvinist saved by grace alone against my own will bond servant of Jesus that I know.  

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

Walter Martin was fun to listen to. He passed on too soon.

That was a very sad day for me, as a personal loss. Darlene (his wife) discovered him after he passed, still on his knees leaning against his bed, apparently he left this world while praying, what a way to go! See you later Walter, I'll join you for a plate of spaghetti brother!