Your closest friendnt Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,863 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,763 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Don19 said: Gal 3:14 places the promise of the Spirit at salvation. Paul speaks of our salvation interchangeably with the promise of the Spirit in Gal 3:14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Likewise, 1 Thess 1:4-5: Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. Read 1 Cor 12:13 again. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Our being in the Body of Christ is a result of the baptism by one Spirit into that one Body (of Christ - see also Rom 7:4). The baptism of the Holy Spirit makes us all one in Christ. It is emphatically not a post-conversion experience belonging only to some. Paul's egalitarian argument in 1 Cor 12:1-13 would be overthrown by such a notion. Roman's 8:9 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:15,16 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Galatians 3:2 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 1 John 5:1 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: Jesus said to Nicodemus: Anyone who believes in me after my death on the Cross is born from above. Paul is explaining that Jesus Christ is our Father. We have received of his Spirit when we first believe. Jesus Christ is our Father we are his children and if we are his children then we are the grand children of the Heavenly Father. Esaias 6:9 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. John 1:12,13 12 but as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. The scriptures referred to the first generation of believers, to those born from Parents who were not in the faith of Jesus Christ. I was born from believing parents, I was born unto the Family of Jesus Christ... I belong to Jesus Christ, he is the one who welcome me into this world as his own. When I was born, my parents and the people said one more for Jesus Christ... Amen Edited December 22, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotAllThere Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Don19 said: Gal 3:14 places the promise of the Spirit at salvation. Paul speaks of our salvation interchangeably with the promise of the Spirit in Gal 3:14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Likewise, 1 Thess 1:4-5: Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. Read 1 Cor 12:13 again. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Our being in the Body of Christ is a result of the baptism by one Spirit into that one Body (of Christ - see also Rom 7:4). The baptism of the Holy Spirit makes us all one in Christ. It is emphatically not a post-conversion experience belonging only to some. Paul's egalitarian argument in 1 Cor 12:1-13 would be overthrown by such a notion. That's one way of reading it. But there are others. From my reading of scripture as a whole, I see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from salvation. it is also in accordance with my experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,225 Content Per Day: 7.08 Reputation: 13,233 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 45 minutes ago, NotAllThere said: That's one way of reading it. But there are others. From my reading of scripture as a whole, I see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from salvation. it is also in accordance with my experience. Agreed, brother. This has been my experience as well. Any who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13) and so I was saved long before I was baptized in the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,104 Content Per Day: 9.70 Reputation: 13,591 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 I think at least some of the confusion here is in the terminology. Only the Church of God and the Pentecostals use the term " baptized in the spirit" so far as I know. Most everyone else says a person is "filled with the Spirit". You're calling them both "baptism" but not everyone here sees it as baptism. Many see it as "filling of the Spirit". Baptism is a church ordinance that shows our obedience to the Lord and involves water. In Baptist churches you are dunked completely under the water. Temporarily of course. The Spirit is a whole other thing. I guess you refer to is as baptism. I personally think this makes the idea more confusing. Baptism is baptism. Being filled with the Spirit is being filled with the spirit. There are some potentially divisive views on the Spirit of God with regard to how it all works. Churches centered more on the "gifts" as a means to show spirituality are more prone to emphasize a "baptism" of the spirit. The same thing happens outside of "gifts" centric churches of course but there is no pressure for it to be presented in a certain way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,225 Content Per Day: 7.08 Reputation: 13,233 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) I've shared my testimony elsewhere on the forum but it's worthwhile to touch upon portions which are relevant to the topic at hand. The same Lord Jesus Christ deals with each of us in different ways which is an affirmation of the many-membered body into which we are grafted, purchased from this world by His blood. We are His holy nation and so we are unified with all of the saints of God throughout time and space; before the Word was made flesh and after He rose from the dead and ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne. I don't come from a believing family of the flesh. I never darkened the door of a church and thought of God in only the most vague of terms. Did I believe God existed? Yes, but that was the extent of my knowledge and belief. I wasn't sure what to think about Jesus Christ. Surely He was real but I didn't know Him. Christians puzzled me. Ah, but the Lord knew me. I was home on that day during the early evening hours when the Spirit of God spoke with a voice which I did not hear with these ears, proclaiming my election and that the time had come to seek the Son of God. I was floored, stunned, and rendered speechless by the knowledge that the Almighty was speaking to me. To me? But why? I never fostered an inflated sense of self worth, friends. I considered myself an idiot and couldn't fathom why the Son of God chose me. Therefore I did the only thing I could do: I answered the Lord. What would You have me do, Lord? Tell me because I'm a stupid man! This is in keeping with the scriptures for once Christ sat with our Father upon His throne, He sent the Holy Spirit to reason with all men on this earth, to convict us of our unbelief, wicked deeds, and rebellion against God. Therefore when the Spirit spoke I heard His voice and I answered the Lord who chose me before I was born. Life as I knew it was over. The Lord told me what to do: wrap up my affairs (I resigned a lucrative job), dispose of those things which would prove to be a burden on the road, and seek the one whom He sent to teach me what I needed to know. The counsel of the Lord proved true. I found the one whom He sent... heard the Gospel and believed... and was baptized in water. That was the beginning of my trial by fire. 3o years later at the end of a very long road I found myself close to death. I understand what is meant by the "shadow of death" for that is where I walked. My body of flesh was devastated but this paled before the knowledge that I had failed Jesus Christ who chose me. I tried to do what was right but was incapable of it... my folly consumed me! The Spirit of the Lord came to me in the shadow of death. I was blinded by His glory and rendered speechless that the Almighty had regard for me... me? I am a stupid and worthless man! The Lord raised me up, healed my body and mind, and once this work was complete He lifted me up and baptized me in the Spirit of the living God. Yes, salvation and baptism in the Spirit are different matters. Edited December 22, 2020 by Marathoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotAllThere Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Marathoner said: I don't come from a believing family of the flesh. I never darkened the door of a church and thought of God in only the most vague of terms. Did I believe God existed? Yes, but that was the extent of my knowledge and belief. I wasn't sure what to think about Jesus Christ. Surely He was real but I didn't know Him. Christians puzzled me. I decided God didn't exist. But like you, I didn't grow up in a believing family and never went to church. Certainly knew nothing about Christianity except what popular culture said. (Back in the 70s early 80s). 1 hour ago, Marathoner said: Ah, but the Lord knew me. I was home on that day during the early evening hours when the Spirit of God spoke with a voice which I did not hear with these ears, proclaiming my election and that the time had come to seek the Son of God. I was floored, stunned, and rendered speechless by the knowledge that the Almighty was speaking to me. To me? But why? I never fostered an inflated sense of self worth, friends. I considered myself an idiot and couldn't fathom why the Son of God chose me. Therefore I did the only thing I could do: I answered the Lord. What would You have me do, Lord? Tell me because I'm a stupid man! Ah yes. That's me. But thankfully, aged 15. I wouldn't have known a scripture if it had hit me between the eyes. All I knew was that there was God and Jesus, and I wanted to follow Jesus. Sometime later, about a year, I think, I was at a church service and suddenly filled with this inexpressible joy, peace etc, and I started speaking in this weird language when I prayed. A year later, a preacher was listing a bunch of sins that people might have committed that would cause them to be separated from God. I could tick all the boxes and was utterly broken. I repented. Another year - baptised in water. I have been filled/baptised in the Holy Spirit, I am saved, I have repented, I have been baptised in water, and I have an ongoing relationship with the Lord. In the past 36 years since being saved, I've read the Bible several times and absolutely love it. I've three believing offspring + 1 believing daughter-in-law - all with ongoing relationships with the Lord. I do not believe that my experience is contrary to scripture. However, it is quite clear it is contrary to some people's interpretation of scripture. And I find some people's interpretation of scripture is contrary to my experience. Sorry about that, but I just cannot get dogmatic about interpretation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,225 Content Per Day: 7.08 Reputation: 13,233 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, NotAllThere said: I do not believe that my experience is contrary to scripture. However, it is quite clear it is contrary to some people's interpretation of scripture. And I find some people's interpretation of scripture is contrary to my experience. Sorry about that, but I just cannot get dogmatic about interpretation. No apology is necessary or needed. Your testimony is a witness to the glory of God and the power of Jesus Christ to not only save us from this world and ultimately ourselves, but conform us to His image from glory to glory. I agree about interpretations of scripture, something which proves to be a stumbling stone in the fellowship of many. Our experience is testified in the scriptures, of this there is no doubt; examples abound in the Gospels of those who were foreign to the faith but believed upon Him whom our Father sent. I maintain that the riches of God's glory and grace, which at one time was concealed from men --- even the prophets of old --- are revealed in the Christ, Jesus the Son of God. He is the fullness of God's promise to us all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,225 Content Per Day: 7.08 Reputation: 13,233 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 The testimony of others is precious to our Father and something which men cannot spoil with their theologies and vain ramblings. It's grieving to witness one who is loved by the Lord set upon by those who are pure in their own eyes. It brings to mind the following verses from my favorite of the Proverbs. There is a kind of person who curses his father And does not bless his mother. There is a kind who is pure in his own eyes, Yet is not washed from his filthiness. There is a kind—oh how lofty are his eyes! And his eyelids are raised in arrogance. There is a kind of person whose teeth are like swords And his jaw teeth like knives, To devour the poor from the earth And the needy from among mankind. (Proverbs 30:11-14 NASB) There are some who curse those whom the Lord has blessed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.06 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 I don’t have technical information I just wanted to say I was baptized at 18, but the Holy Spirit came to me when I was in my 30’s. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted December 22, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2020 what is GLOSOLALIA ? What Bible version is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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