Taken up to Heaven

[Dad Ernie]

Kinnear,

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

Sir Winston Churchill

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Kinnear,

So folks the OT does not name three people who have been taken up to God's heaven.

For Enoch - God took Him.

For Elijah & Moses, they both appeared to Jesus on the Mt. of Transfiguration in their "glorified body". The disciples wanted to make tabernacles for them - basically tents to make them comfortable during their stay.

So I must disagree with you. I know there are some difficulties in understanding this along with the verses you reference, but until I see more, I am of the belief that these men are in heaven.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[traveller]

Kinnear, how do you know that whirlwinds don't operate in Heaven? And if they don't, then how do you know that it didn't operate all the way to the doorstep?  

[Guest kinnear]

Oh Boy, here we go again.

Difficult scriptures must always be interpreted in the light of the easily understood.

Christ said,

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Kinnear,

Here are the verses relating to the transfiguration:

Matt 17:3-9 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Mark 9:4-10 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus. 5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid. 7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. 8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. 10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Luke 9:30-36 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: 31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him. 33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said. 34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. 35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. 36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

Things to note about this story is that initially the disciples were either asleep or dozing off, but were awakened.

They then saw Elijah & Moses as well as Jesus in their "glory" (Gr. doxa - What Jesus had with the Father before His incarnation and that which we look forward to - see John 17:5)

This was NOT only a "spiritual manifestation" as happened to Paul on the Road to Damascus, but we see the word "MAN" used in reference to the two Prophets. The disciples also wanted to build a tabernacle for each of the three of them. Tabernacle here would be a tent or shelter.

The Prophets had come to speak to Jesus concerning His death.

Then we see a bright, glorious CLOUD overshadowing the whole group and from the cloud we hear a voice of God: "This is my beloved Son: hear him." THIS was the "supernatural vision" which occured on that Mt. We know this by:

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

Then we see Jesus and the Apostles leaving the Mt. and Jesus saying: "they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead."

The word "seen" here is the Gr. word eido, that which is seen with the physical eyes.

During most all of Jesus ministry, He was very careful about revealing His true self, that is, the Son of God. He was quite aware of God's "timing" regarding His death, and I believe this played a big part in His ministry, because we see in various scriptures the idea of "my time is not yet", even starting from the wedding at Cana.

Well in any case, Elijah and Moses were shown in their GLORIFIED bodies. My take on this is that God is OUTSIDE time, and when we die, we immediately enter into the presence of the Lord and there, are judged and given our rewards. We see events as running in one forward direction, but we also know that Jesus was slain BEFORE the foundation of the earth. Understanding that, then we know that for Elijah and Moses the resurrection had already occurred and they had received their "glorified bodies". Then at the appropriate time, visited Jesus on the Mt. of Transfiguration. You might say they even did a bit of "time travel", which isn't really true in a strict sense, since God is OUTSIDE time.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Waldans Mountain]

Hi all

Dont claim to know where Enoch and Elijah were translated to, but the fact is the new testament says that No one has ascended to heaven. As for the transfiguation, has anyone given thought to the 1000 yr period of rest?

MARK 9 [1] And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.[2] And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.[3] And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.[4] And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.[5] And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.[6] For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.[7] And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

LUKE 9  [27] But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.[28] And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.[29] And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.[30] And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:[31] Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.[32] But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.[33] And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

2 PETER 3  [7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Most all bible scholars say the world since the time of creation to now is about 6000 years.The 1000 yr period of rest cannot be to far away! 2 Peter 3 says