R. Hartono Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,937 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2019 Are they serious or just kidding ? Homicide happens since Cain murdered Abel be4 the flood. It doesnt mean the Red horse was released since then. God still give a chance for the world to receive the Gospel Salvation and repent. How would God's purpose of Gospel Salvation reach the world if they are deemed to be killed ? How would this world repent if they should kill one another ? Why would pastors preach at churches if they and the people are just doomed to kill one another on the street ? How would Gospel reach the people and win souls ? UNLESS THE GOSPEL ERA IS OVER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS REMOVED WITH THE CHURCH TO HEAVEN. Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted May 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) On 4/29/2019 at 6:25 AM, R. Hartono said: Are they serious or just kidding ? Homicide happens since Cain murdered Abel be4 the flood. It doesnt mean the Red horse was released since then. God still give a chance for the world to receive the Gospel Salvation and repent. How would God's purpose of Gospel Salvation reach the world if they are deemed to be killed ? How would this world repent if they should kill one another ? Why would pastors preach at churches if they and the people are just doomed to kill one another on the street ? How would Gospel reach the people and win souls ? UNLESS THE GOSPEL ERA IS OVER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS REMOVED WITH THE CHURCH TO HEAVEN. Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. When you read it IN CONTEXT....then you will know most theories take it out of context. Go back to chapter 5: John saw the very moment Jesus ascended into heaven and Sent the Holy Spirit down - around 32 AD. That is when Jesus took the book and began opening the seals. Seal 1: the church taking the gospel to the world. Seals 2-4: Satan's attempts to stop the church. God could not send the church out until Jesus ascended and broke that first seal. It is a legal document of heaven. Once the church was sent out, then it was legal for Satan to attempt war, famine, pestilence, etc, to stop the advance of the church. But God limited them to only 1/4 of the earth to do what they could to stop the gospel. Of course they failed! Even with two world wars, Satan could not stop the gospel. In fact, even the 5th seal is opened: the martyrs of the church age. Edited May 3, 2019 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted May 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,937 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 2 hours ago, iamlamad said: In fact, even the 5th seal is opened: the martyrs of the church age. The 5th seal is about martyrs of the tribulation period thats why they need to wait just a little season : Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. John saw two groups of people in heaven : The great multitude (church) and the martyrs under the altar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2019 According to the Bible we are not even in the 7 year tribulation yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted May 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, R. Hartono said: The 5th seal is about martyrs of the tribulation period thats why they need to wait just a little season : Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. John saw two groups of people in heaven : The great multitude (church) and the martyrs under the altar. You are mistaken. The martyrs of the 70th week would not have had to ask: they would all know they only had to wait out the rest of the 7 years. But what were they waiting on? They were waiting on judgment to begin. Sorry, but the beginning of judgment is the beginning of the "Tribulation" and vice versa. Therefore your theory makes no sense. On the other hand, Stephen for example would have had no idea how long the "age of grace" would be, and how long it would be for the time of judgment to come - the "tribulation." They were told that they must wait for the final martyr to be killed as they were killed - as church age martyrs. God knows the total number and they must wait for that total number to be fulfilled. THEN judgment comes. In Revelation we see that judgment begins at the 6th seal. Therefore, those at the 5th seal only need wait for the 6th seal. But HOW LONG a wait? The church has been waiting between the 5th and 6th seal now for almost 2000 years. John broke from his narrative between the 6th (start of the Day of Wrath) and the 7th (start of the 70th week of Daniel). Why? Why did John go into an intermission before he could get to the 7th seal? The 7th seal begins the 70th week, or "the tribulation" as some wish to call it. It is the time of God's wrath on earth. In the mind of God, TWO things MUST happen before that 7th seal officially opens the tribulation: first, the 144,000 must be sealed for their protection. Second, the church must be safely raptured to heaven. John saw (in vision form) this part of the future. It is still in OUR future. There are still church age martyrs being added, and the church age or age of grace continues on - but very soon the last church age martyr will have come in, Jesus will return FOR His church, The Day of the Lord (wrath) will begin, then the 70th week will begin. It will begin with the first 6 trumpet judgments. The 7th will mark the midpoint. Edited May 3, 2019 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted May 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2019 7 hours ago, missmuffet said: According to the Bible we are not even in the 7 year tribulation yet. Exactly: martyrs are still be added during this church age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,937 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 5/3/2019 at 8:32 PM, iamlamad said: Exactly: martyrs are still be added during this church age. Martyrs of church age shall be resurrected n taken with the church as the great multitude in front of the Throne, martyrs in tribulation Will appear under the altar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Martyrs of church age shall be resurrected n taken with the church as the great multitude in front of the Throne, martyrs in tribulation Will appear under the altar You have it backwards! It was the church age martyrs seen under the altar. WAKE UP! John had not yet even started the 70th week at seal 5! Much less arrived at the place where the Beast is beheading people. Did you just not read that the beheaded only begin showing up in heaven in chapter 15? You are ignoring TIME. The 5th seal is in chapter 6 and the martyrs of the days of GT show up in chapter 15! That is 9 chapters apart, and those 9 chapters represent over 6 years of time. I will agree, those under the altar, the church age martyrs, will be raptured with the church and will certainly be a small PART of that huge crowd, too large to number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted May 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,937 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 6, 2019 21 hours ago, iamlamad said: I will agree, those under the altar, the church age martyrs, will be raptured with the church and will certainly be a small PART of that huge crowd, too large to number They r already under the Altar ini front of God's throne, why wud Jesus need to rapture them to heaven? Thats ur story'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted May 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2019 11 hours ago, R. Hartono said: They r already under the Altar ini front of God's throne, why wud Jesus need to rapture them to heaven? Thats ur story'. It is too simple! I am amazed you haven't figured this out yet. All martyrs so far are with that group under the altar, but they are there IN SPIRIT, not in FLESH. They await the resurrection where they can get their bodies back, just as all others (not martyrs; just dead in Christ) are waiting. Paul said Jesus would escort those spirits back from heaven WITH HIM so they can meet with their resurrection bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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