Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

I have already been pointed. I gave my life to Christ when I was seven. I received the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit when I was 20. I would not turn back from either decision for anything. 

As for what you are teaching? There is only one passage that speaks of the Laodicean church.  I don't think it was meant to become "an age." Perhaps this is why no churches are teaching this. If you are preaching to the lukewarm, trying to stir them up, GO FOR IT!  But you will need to go in the power of the Holy Spirit.

In my opinion, must of what you have written concerning tongues has been wrong; not according to scripture.  That is why I kept repeating the scriptures over and over, hoping that you would read them without preconceptions. I still say, if you don't pray in tongues, you are missing God's will for your life. It is for all who are born again as a bonus when they receive the "second, definite work of Grace." (John Wesley)

When the Word of God comes alive, you will see how Much of scripture pertains to the Laodicean church age. The passage in revelation is just the only one that names this age as such. I Have pointed to numerous scriptures that confirm this, and what it means to be a saint and an overcomer. This requires the final move of the Holy Ghost in our lives. We are beyond the Fundamentalist doctrine, beyond the speaking of Tongues onto completeness in Christ Jesus. Complacency is to stop where you are at in your growth, to say the second move is the final move of the Holy Ghost. You say you have made Jesus your all in all, but from where I stand it is obvious you have not, You still cling to the doctrines and teachings of men. You are unable to digest the meat of His Word. I Posted this on another topic here, But I want you to understand this, so that you can know what you are rejecting.

Progressive sanctification is the process in a Christian's life in which he or she is made progressively more holy. The word "sanctify" means to "set apart, make holy." Sanctification has three aspects: (1) Positional sanctification, (2) Progressive sanctification, and (3) Ultimate sanctification.

Positional sanctification is the fact that God declares a Christian to be absolutely holy the moment he or she believes in Jesus Christ. When God looks at a Christian, He sees the righteousness and holiness of Christ. Ultimate sanctification is what occurs at death, when a Christian is absolutely and permanently free from the very presence of sin and is perfected in God's sight. 1 John 3:2 describes ultimate sanctification, "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." So, progressive sanctification is the process of taking what we are positionally, and what we will be ultimately - and progressively making it reality in our Christian life.

https://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/progressive-sanctification-faq.htm

Although this site ascribes ultimate sanctification as occurring at our death, In the times we are living in this is something that will be attained by those alive as we enter the final week and the time of great tribulation. This concept is known as the conception of the Sons of God.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? (Romans 8)

Forgive the long passage, But what I am showing you is all in there.  

[dhchristian]

12 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You need to learn some things: He stands at the door of the UNSAVED; asking to be allowed in. When Jesus came to earth, it was "God with us" as the human race.  When one is born again, it is God INSIDE US, as the seal of the Holy Spirit. When one then goes on to receive the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit, then it is the Holy Spirit UPON - as His anointing.  I guess you need to see it:

Wrong, This letter is addressed to the church... The church consists of those who believe. The church and its members have locked Jesus out.... if you cannot see this fundamental truth, how will you be able to see the Truth of what I am revealing to You Now?

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

DH: I have been thinking about this: I will agree that the church in general, worldwide is probably more lukewarm than it has ever been. So in this we agree. 

In my mind, what God is doing TODAY is preparing His people for His coming.  Of course He is always seeking the Lost, but with the church, He does not want to leave any behind.  

Do you agree?

That is what he has sent me to do. First to the teachers, to get them to be able to be taught, then to the sheep to be able to receive this. This is not about me being right but US getting it right. this is all about the hardness of the heart to receive his great revelations in these end times. That we do not resist as did Israel during the first advent. We are the final church age, what we become is more important than where we have been. I came out of a Baptist background, you came out of a Wesleyan/Pentecostal background, None of that matters if we are born as Sons of God Born of the Spirit. We are all one, One Body with Christ as the head, our all in all. You have prayed the prayer in Eph 1:17-23, Now finish it with the last line of that prayer in verse 23. This is What the Wisdom of God leads to. I am not trying to convert you, I am trying to direct you to the cross once again, that he May FILL you.   

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Wrong, This letter is addressed to the church... The church consists of those who believe. The church and its members have locked Jesus out.... if you cannot see this fundamental truth, how will you be able to see the Truth of what I am revealing to You Now?

²⁰ Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

This is to the lukewarm: people that call themselves "Christian" but have never been born again. That is why Jesus is knocking at the door: He wants in. 

WRONG: the church consists of those who are born again. MANY in the world believe in Jesus, but have never been born again.  If you can't see this fundamental truth.....

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, dhchristian said:

When the Word of God comes alive, you will see how Much of scripture pertains to the Laodicean church age. The passage in revelation is just the only one that names this age as such. I Have pointed to numerous scriptures that confirm this, and what it means to be a saint and an overcomer. This requires the final move of the Holy Ghost in our lives. We are beyond the Fundamentalist doctrine, beyond the speaking of Tongues onto completeness in Christ Jesus. Complacency is to stop where you are at in your growth, to say the second move is the final move of the Holy Ghost. You say you have made Jesus your all in all, but from where I stand it is obvious you have not, You still cling to the doctrines and teachings of men. You are unable to digest the meat of His Word. I Posted this on another topic here, But I want you to understand this, so that you can know what you are rejecting.

Progressive sanctification is the process in a Christian's life in which he or she is made progressively more holy. The word "sanctify" means to "set apart, make holy." Sanctification has three aspects: (1) Positional sanctification, (2) Progressive sanctification, and (3) Ultimate sanctification.

Positional sanctification is the fact that God declares a Christian to be absolutely holy the moment he or she believes in Jesus Christ. When God looks at a Christian, He sees the righteousness and holiness of Christ. Ultimate sanctification is what occurs at death, when a Christian is absolutely and permanently free from the very presence of sin and is perfected in God's sight. 1 John 3:2 describes ultimate sanctification, "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." So, progressive sanctification is the process of taking what we are positionally, and what we will be ultimately - and progressively making it reality in our Christian life.

https://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/progressive-sanctification-faq.htm

Although this site ascribes ultimate sanctification as occurring at our death, In the times we are living in this is something that will be attained by those alive as we enter the final week and the time of great tribulation. This concept is known as the conception of the Sons of God.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? (Romans 8)

Forgive the long passage, But what I am showing you is all in there.  

I believe it: both the first part and second part. John Wesley did not understand the true bible second work of Grace - which is made clear in Acts 1.

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

²⁰ Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

This is to the lukewarm: people that call themselves "Christian" but have never been born again. That is why Jesus is knocking at the door: He wants in. 

WRONG: the church consists of those who are born again. MANY in the world believe in Jesus, but have never been born again.  If you can't see this fundamental truth.....

True in that some have never been born again, But the point is Partial unbelief...As I have explained to you before. You yourself are exhibiting that as well with your resistance to this. I Understand your concern but be a Berrean about this, What I am saying here is significant, and verified by scripture. Do not make the same mistake the Israelites did forcing them to go into the Wilderness for 40 Years. That is what awaits those who are in unbelief, saints or not. You have no excuse that You do not know now... Do you understand yet? 

[dhchristian]

11 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I believe it: both the first part and second part. John Wesley did not understand the true bible second work of Grace - which is made clear in Acts 1.

You now understand the final move, the fulness of Christ.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

True in that some have never been born again, But the point is Partial unbelief...As I have explained to you before. You yourself are exhibiting that as well with your resistance to this. I Understand your concern but be a Berrean about this, What I am saying here is significant, and verified by scripture. Do not make the same mistake the Israelites did forcing them to go into the Wilderness for 40 Years. That is what awaits those who are in unbelief, saints or not. You have no excuse that You do not know now... Do you understand yet? 

No, the point is, they are not born again" plain and simple: No one can have faith in what they don't know. How can they learn without a teacher? Millions who attend dead churches have never heard any teaching on "you must be born again." I agree in part, they have unbelief, but why? It is mostly because they are not taught.  Yes, there are some that have heard they must be born again, but they are deceived into thinking they have more time.  I would rather say those not born again are more deceived than  in unbelief.

No one can believe past the scripture they know. Sadly in many churches NO scripture is taught, so there is much unbelief. 

There can be no doubt, those that will be left behind will face a terrible time. We both know this.

In another area, you have unbelief concerning tongues - and that comes because you don't understand the scriptures.  You can only have true bible faith on scriptures you know  - correctly.  You cannot get something from God except by faith.

[dhchristian]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

In another area, you have unbelief concerning tongues - and that comes because you don't understand the scriptures.  You can only have true bible faith on scriptures you know  - correctly.  You cannot get something from God except by faith.

This is not a denominational issue, Each of us took a different sort of Road to get to this point, we are talking about unifying in Christ Jesus here. Debating about denominational points is not going to cut it, Because they prevent this. That would be like me denying a Lutheran entry because they were only Baptized as an infant, and not after they were saved. I Do not deny tongues, nor do I condemn anyone for speaking them. Do You understand this? When we are debating denominational issues like this it shows we are still thinking in the Wisdom of man, Not the Wisdom of God. (Read my latest Post on this to fully understand this) Read also those verses again from Hebrews 5 and 6 that posted here. While you are still contending with tongues, You are still operating in the Wisdom of men, and not the Wisdom of God... Set this aside for now and listen to what I have said here. I Understand your unbelief in what I am saying, because you are Wary of deception, and this is a wise response, But you should also Pray for guidance on this. These denominational things will take care of themselves when Our focus is on Christ Jesus, Our all in all... 

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, dhchristian said:

This is not a denominational issue, Each of us took a different sort of Road to get to this point, we are talking about unifying in Christ Jesus here. Debating about denominational points is not going to cut it, Because they prevent this. That would be like me denying a Lutheran entry because they were only Baptized as an infant, and not after they were saved. I Do not deny tongues, nor do I condemn anyone for speaking them. Do You understand this? When we are debating denominational issues like this it shows we are still thinking in the Wisdom of man, Not the Wisdom of God. (Read my latest Post on this to fully understand this) Read also those verses again from Hebrews 5 and 6 that posted here. While you are still contending with tongues, You are still operating in the Wisdom of men, and not the Wisdom of God... Set this aside for now and listen to what I have said here. I Understand your unbelief in what I am saying, because you are Wary of deception, and this is a wise response, But you should also Pray for guidance on this. These denominational things will take care of themselves when Our focus is on Christ Jesus, Our all in all... 

This is just not quite on point here. You say you do not deny tongues, but the truth is, you deny tongues for YOU! (Tongues are OK for those that speak in tongues, but I don't need tongues - something like this) Note very carefully this is NOT a "denominational issue." It is a BIBLE issue! I am contending for the correct understanding of Acts 1, Acts 2, Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19, and 1 Cor. 14 - but mostly Paul's chapter on Tongues. I could care less what denomination one grew up in. I grew up in a church that declared that tongues (today) are of the devil. How silly could any denomination be?

What you are missing: Christ is the head of the church, and it was HIS PLAN that all receive the mighty baptism in the Spirit with the evidence of praying in tongues.  You may not believe this statement now, but when you meet Him, you will.

I wonder - since you have never denied or confirmed: do you now believe that when someone prays in tongues they are talking to God, and not to man, because "no man understands?"  Please, read that verse in every translation you can find. It is TRUTH.