Justin Adams Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 Sorry to keep harping on this, but all your schemes fall apart. There is NO rapture. There is a second coming and times of great upheaval. Daniel and Revelations (a further clarification) have been largely fulfilled. Eschatology after the fact is far more enlightening. Just trust King Yeshua, and stay away for a bit from the area of Bashan... But when the dust has settled, be ready to return to The Edenic Throne Mountain of our Everlasting King. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 22 hours ago, Justin Adams said: Tribulation to an Israeli is the scattering of nations and the exile of the scattered tribes. "Tribulation" could easily be the sacking of Jerusalem. Read Josephus' account. Horrendous for Israelis. A shadow of a later REALLY REALLY REALLY Great tribulation is also implied by Yeshua (Matt 24). Please note that this stuff was written to Israel. The inter-testament Hebrew scholars were very conscious of what needed to happen when the Messiah came. They missed the plot, but all they had hoped for came about but in a different way than expected. They will see this later - but not for awhile yet. Quote: About Revelations. (most likely written in AD 68 in Aramaic (Syriac) and later translated to Greek. https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/28131/was-the-book-of-john-written-first-or-the-book-of-revelation “It was written in Patmos about A.D. 68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus in A.D. 175, who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou – i.e., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius, Orosius, etc., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the early date.” One of multiple sources (p. 147): here below is the link. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=x2hW5TETupgC&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=Young's+Analytical+Concordance+on+the+date+of+Revelation&source=bl&ots=PJdkY7sjXX&sig=rF45GkII-s1nw6jAb8KuO7jOlPY&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Young's Analytical Concordance on the date of Revelation&f=false It's hard to know when for sure. I have seen convincing articles on both dates. In my mind the later date fits better based on the fact John was exiled, a characteristic of Domitian, where Nero was a murderer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Diaste said: It's hard to know when for sure. I have seen convincing articles on both dates. In my mind the later date fits better based on the fact John was exiled, a characteristic of Domitian, where Nero was a murderer. It is pretty certain that The Revelations were written in about AD 68 in Syriac Pershitta. That Aramaic text has been kept mostly private and the Greek annotations suggest a translation for non-Hebrew people in the early churches was made later. The eastern church, that did not recognize Revelation until later, also had an very early Aramaic text of Revelations. Quote: [https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/28131/was-the-book-of-john-written-first-or-the-book-of-revelation] (See bold text at bottom of quote) Contrary to what the Roman Catholic Church and most protestant denominations have traditionally taught in the last 150 years, all of the books of the NT were written before the destruction of Jerusalem, and there are many evidences in the scriptures to prove it. I have a copy with annotations etc in PDF form of the earlier Aramaic text. If you can read Greek and Aramaic you are welcome to have it. Edited August 28, 2019 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Diaste said: It's hard to know when for sure. I have seen convincing articles on both dates. In my mind the later date fits better based on the fact John was exiled, a characteristic of Domitian, where Nero was a murderer. What has really muddied the waters is the Preterist so-called doctrines. The church did not like this and did all it could to obscure this in that age when nobody - I MEAN NOBODY - knew what was going on except the 'self-chosen' and the 'peasants' could be put to death for even having a copy of any scripture. The church did a massive campaign of 'queering the pitch' so that their take was the ONLY TAKE. Thus we unfortunately today have doctored dogmas and doctrines that keep the pre-trib nonsense bringing in the dollars, with the emphasis on paying your dues so that great sky-elevator does not leave you behind. Very few even know about Psalm 82, Deut 32, Isiah, Jeremiah etc. and the Council of God and His Geographical Cosmology. C.S. Lewis called it, 'the unseen real'. Dr. Heiser calls it, 'the unseen realm'. It is well worth studying. One can get a real picture of what is going on, 'as on earth, so also in heaven'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: It is pretty certain that The Revelations were written in about AD 68 in Syriac Pershitta. That Aramaic text has been kept mostly private and the Greek annotations suggest a translation for non-Hebrew people in the early churches was made later. The eastern church, that did not recognize Revelation until later, also had an very early Aramaic text of Revelations. Quote: [https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/28131/was-the-book-of-john-written-first-or-the-book-of-revelation] (See bold text at bottom of quote) Contrary to what the Roman Catholic Church and most protestant denominations have traditionally taught in the last 150 years, all of the books of the NT were written before the destruction of Jerusalem, and there are many evidences in the scriptures to prove it. I have a copy with annotations etc in PDF form of the earlier Aramaic text. If you can read Greek and Aramaic you are welcome to have it. I don't disagree. But there are as many historians and archaeologists who will say Domitian as will say Nero in dating the origin of Revelation. The one evidence which is convincing for me is the exile, a Roman punishment for certain crimes under Domitian at that time in the Roman Empire. Is this enough proof? Probably not. It does disprove a ridiculous pretrib doctrine however, and I do like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: What has really muddied the waters is the Preterist so-called doctrines. The church did not like this and did all it could to obscure this in that age when nobody - I MEAN NOBODY - knew what was going on except the 'self-chosen' and the 'peasants' could be put to death for even having a copy of any scripture. The church did a massive campaign of 'queering the pitch' so that their take was the ONLY TAKE. And they are still at it, fervently. 4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Thus we unfortunately today have doctored dogmas and doctrines that keep the pre-trib nonsense bringing in the dollars, with the emphasis on paying your dues so that great sky-elevator does not leave you behind. Yeah. Something I truly hate. 4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Very few even know about Psalm 82, Deut 32, Isiah, Jeremiah Could you be more specific in Isaiah and Jeremiah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Diaste said: I don't disagree. But there are as many historians and archaeologists who will say Domitian as will say Nero in dating the origin of Revelation. The one evidence which is convincing for me is the exile, a Roman punishment for certain crimes under Domitian at that time in the Roman Empire. Is this enough proof? Probably not. It does disprove a ridiculous pretrib doctrine however, and I do like that. “It was written in Patmos about A.D. 68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus in A.D. 175, who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou – i.e., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius, Orosius, etc., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the early date.” Most of this error I believe is based on Irenaeus' mistake. You can see this in many, many documentary 'proofs' of the late date that does no really fit with the content about the Temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: “It was written in Patmos about A.D. 68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus in A.D. 175, who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou – i.e., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius, Orosius, etc., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the early date.” Most of this error I believe is based on Irenaeus' mistake. You can see this in many, many documentary 'proofs' of the late date that does no really fit with the content about the Temple. Why do you believe this is important that the early date is accurate and not the later date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 God opened a view of heaven up to Isaiah, who saw God in His Temple guarded by seraphs and speaking to His divine council (Isa. 6:1-8). Because Isaiah "sat in on" that council meeting, he offered to be the messenger and to bring the true words of God to the people of Israel For who has stood in the counsel of the LORD, and has perceived and heard his word? who has marked his word, and heard it? who. Jeremiah 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Diaste said: Why do you believe this is important that the early date is accurate and not the later date? I have a sneaking suspicion that Daniel and Revelations (great money-spinners) would be not so high on many agendas if they were to be seen as largely a fait accompli. I know there is almost certain to be a massive battle towards the end, and seen from the perspective of God's Council, more relevant emphasis should be focused on what God is actually doing right now and His definitely stated aims and goals and how He acts to bring them about. When the focus (deliberate) is on past prophesy and future unknowable stuff, it is a nice fertile field for all kinds of chicanery and slight of hand to keep the peasants paying their dues, fearful of their selfish hides. Get their attention off God's present workings and intentions. I see a different emphasis with a real in-depth understanding of the Heart of God and His very real intentions towards us as His Sons and a part of His blended family. His world and not just us is His focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts