Intelligent Design, Science & Religion

[Paul James]

41 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

I didn’t claim it was. I said that God created it.

Yes, but do you believe the Holy Spirit resides in some physical location, or interacts with us on a level that is not physical?

Self spirituality is New Age.  The Holy Spirit always speaks through the written Scriptures, because the written Scriptures are authoritative and infallible.

[one.opinion]

1 minute ago, Paul James said:

Self spirituality is New Age.

And I’m rejecting it... again...

[Eddy Crocker]

On 5/6/2020 at 5:31 PM, one.opinion said:

Why would one assume that “His image” is physical, rather than spiritual?

Romans 1:19-20

¹⁹ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

²⁰ For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Your very right. His image is not necessarily Male and Female on a physical realm. The physical is only a manifestation of spiritual principles to understand the spiritual. It’s just like our five senses.
The five senses are a physical counterpart of the spiritual. I would or could not understand the spiritual if it weren’t for the effects or manifestations of the cause which is the spiritual.

The cause is understood by the effects. Sometimes the cause can be misinterpreted by the effects. All we can do is to prove our interpretations by the Bible and science as witnesses to what the scriptures says. The problem is, the book of Genesis wasn’t written in a way to prove or disapprove itself.

Remember it was a vision given to Moses in how he created the heavens and the earth. There’s definitely gaps in how to interpret it according to interpreting it physically.

As far us being created in his own image as male and female, this is only to understand how he created all things. We followed the same pattern how God was fruitful and how he replenished the heavens. 
Man through the women coming out of man was able to be fruitful and multiply the earth.
 

But remember in order for Adam to do this he had to come out of that place of perfection where everything was perfect. Adam had to come out of the garden to realize he was naked and get a desire to even procreate in the first place. Did God do the same thing? I suspect so because we are the manifestation of what God did spiritually.

If man had to replenish the earth, does that mean the earth was once filled in a previous creation like the other similar creation stories and flood stories? That just a question I cannot answer but makes me wonder? It’s says of Satan being made perfect until iniquity or sin was found in him.

The question is how many creations did the earth go through when we encounter the word UNTIL. Did Gods plan evolve after so many creations were made and wiped out through a flood that now this creation is the perfect one to cause his plans and purposes to be executed perfectly now.

The story of creation and the things of time I believe is God’s evolution process to understand himself more perfectly and thoroughly. God was never separate and apart from himself until he made man and got into him as a soul that has a will.

Through the will of man he can see himself from the outside to better know himself more perfectly. It’s just like us. We need something external to ourselves as a mirror to truly see ourselves. I believe we are God’s mirror of how he sees himself by.

This is our tue self. God expressing himself within us because he has gotten into what he has created.

[Paul James]

On 5/16/2020 at 2:20 AM, Eddy Crocker said:

Romans 1:19-20

¹⁹ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

²⁰ For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Your very right. His image is not necessarily Male and Female on a physical realm. The physical is only a manifestation of spiritual principles to understand the spiritual. It’s just like our five senses.
The five senses are a physical counterpart of the spiritual. I would or could not understand the spiritual if it weren’t for the effects or manifestations of the cause which is the spiritual.

The cause is understood by the effects. Sometimes the cause can be misinterpreted by the effects. All we can do is to prove our interpretations by the Bible and science as witnesses to what the scriptures says. The problem is, the book of Genesis wasn’t written in a way to prove or disapprove itself.

Remember it was a vision given to Moses in how he created the heavens and the earth. There’s definitely gaps in how to interpret it according to interpreting it physically.

As far us being created in his own image as male and female, this is only to understand how he created all things. We followed the same pattern how God was fruitful and how he replenished the heavens. 
Man through the women coming out of man was able to be fruitful and multiply the earth.
 

But remember in order for Adam to do this he had to come out of that place of perfection where everything was perfect. Adam had to come out of the garden to realize he was naked and get a desire to even procreate in the first place. Did God do the same thing? I suspect so because we are the manifestation of what God did spiritually.

If man had to replenish the earth, does that mean the earth was once filled in a previous creation like the other similar creation stories and flood stories? That just a question I cannot answer but makes me wonder? It’s says of Satan being made perfect until iniquity or sin was found in him.

The question is how many creations did the earth go through when we encounter the word UNTIL. Did Gods plan evolve after so many creations were made and wiped out through a flood that now this creation is the perfect one to cause his plans and purposes to be executed perfectly now.

The story of creation and the things of time I believe is God’s evolution process to understand himself more perfectly and thoroughly. God was never separate and apart from himself until he made man and got into him as a soul that has a will.

Through the will of man he can see himself from the outside to better know himself more perfectly. It’s just like us. We need something external to ourselves as a mirror to truly see ourselves. I believe we are God’s mirror of how he sees himself by.

This is our tue self. God expressing himself within us because he has gotten into what he has created.

Theistic Evolution is part of the wood, hay, and stubble of man's philosophy which will be all burned up at the second coming of Christ, and those who believe in it will be saved "as of by fire", but all their works in life will be burned up and lost, and their salvation will be through the bare grace of God, but none of their works for God will be recognised in eternity.  But those who have remained faithful to God's literal Word and the true gospel of Christ will be rewarded for their fidelity to the true God of the Bible.

[one.opinion]

7 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Theistic Evolution is part of the wood, hay, and stubble of man's philosophy which will be all burned up at the second coming of Christ, and those who believe in it will be saved "as of by fire", but all their works in life will be burned up and lost, and their salvation will be through the bare grace of God, but none of their works for God will be recognised in eternity.  But those who have remained faithful to God's literal Word and the true gospel of Christ will be rewarded for their fidelity to the true God of the Bible.

I have no doubt you believe this, but you certainly cannot support it from Scripture, or anywhere else.

[Eddy Crocker]

6 hours ago, Paul James said:

Theistic Evolution is part of the wood, hay, and stubble of man's philosophy which will be all burned up at the second coming of Christ, and those who believe in it will be saved "as of by fire", but all their works in life will be burned up and lost, and their salvation will be through the bare grace of God, but none of their works for God will be recognised in eternity.  But those who have remained faithful to God's literal Word and the true gospel of Christ will be rewarded for their fidelity to the true God of the Bible.

@Paul JamesInterpreting the Bible literally in most cases is the wood, hay stubble that your talking about that will be burned up and you will suffer a loss because you stumbled at that stumbling stone that the Lord laid in Zion.

The very thing that brings us into its reality is the very thing that keeps you out at the same time. This is the stumbling stone scripture talks about. It’s the letter of scripture that hasn’t been enlightened unto you through the Holy Spirit because you stopped at the physical interpretations of it with your carnal mind.

Scripture even explains what the Antichrist Spirit. It’s says those who don’t confess Jesus is come in the flesh is the spirit of Antichrist. If your talking about a future coming that is the Antichrist Spirit. Allot of people are manifesting it through their interpretations.

The scripture doesn’t say if you don’t confess he’s coming as though it’s a future coming. No it says if your not confessing an (IS COME) reality, then this is the spirit of Antichrist. An (IS COME) is a present reality. If your not confessing his coming as a present reality then your manifesting that spirit of Antichrist. 

The Antichrist Spirit doesn’t allow you to see his coming AS ALREADY A REALITY that you can have now or possess now. But it’s that spirit that doesn’t allow you  to see this reality as a PRESENT ONE.

Mathew 4:35,

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Mathew 13:39,

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

This scripture above is only to show that the harvest is the end of the world. Don’t say the harvest or the  ( End Of THE WORLD) is in four months or in the future. Look their white already to harvest. Meaning (PAST TENSE.)

Mathew 16:28,

Truly I say to you, there are some of those standing here who shall not taste of death until they have seen the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Mathew 24:34,

Truly I say to you that this generation will not have passed away until all these things shall have taken place.

This scripture doesn’t imply a future generation either. It says THIS GENERATION shall not pass away until all theses things have taken place. The churches use this 24th chapter to support the RAPTURE, SECOND COMING, and the TRIBULATION This means all these things that the whole of this 24th chapter of Mathew has already taken place in the Generation that Jesus spoke these things to. 

Luke 11:20,

But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

All these scriptures shows the coming of Jesus and his Kingdom has come already and is a present reality. I know some will say just his Kingdom has come. I will say unto you that a king doesn’t separate himself from his Kingdom. The king dwells in his Kingdom within us as that Great Holy Spirit now within us.
Luke 17:21

You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.”

Luke 17:20,

Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation

1 Thessalonians 5:2,

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Future interpretations are the manifestations of the Antichrist Spirit that hinders us and blinds our eyes from his coming as a present reality.

Remember an (IS COME) is not a future tense. (IS COME) is a present reality. So we see the stumbling stone is at work in allot of people theses days. They definitely are not believing what the scriptures literally say. 
 

[Paul James]

12 hours ago, Eddy Crocker said:

@Paul JamesInterpreting the Bible literally in most cases is the wood, hay stubble that your talking about that will be burned up and you will suffer a loss because you stumbled at that stumbling stone that the Lord laid in Zion.

The very thing that brings us into its reality is the very thing that keeps you out at the same time. This is the stumbling stone scripture talks about. It’s the letter of scripture that hasn’t been enlightened unto you through the Holy Spirit because you stopped at the physical interpretations of it with your carnal mind.

Scripture even explains what the Antichrist Spirit. It’s says those who don’t confess Jesus is come in the flesh is the spirit of Antichrist. If your talking about a future coming that is the Antichrist Spirit. Allot of people are manifesting it through their interpretations.

The scripture doesn’t say if you don’t confess he’s coming as though it’s a future coming. No it says if your not confessing an (IS COME) reality, then this is the spirit of Antichrist. An (IS COME) is a present reality. If your not confessing his coming as a present reality then your manifesting that spirit of Antichrist. 

The Antichrist Spirit doesn’t allow you to see his coming AS ALREADY A REALITY that you can have now or possess now. But it’s that spirit that doesn’t allow you  to see this reality as a PRESENT ONE.

Mathew 4:35,

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Mathew 13:39,

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

This scripture above is only to show that the harvest is the end of the world. Don’t say the harvest or the  ( End Of THE WORLD) is in four months or in the future. Look their white already to harvest. Meaning (PAST TENSE.)

Mathew 16:28,

Truly I say to you, there are some of those standing here who shall not taste of death until they have seen the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Mathew 24:34,

Truly I say to you that this generation will not have passed away until all these things shall have taken place.

This scripture doesn’t imply a future generation either. It says THIS GENERATION shall not pass away until all theses things have taken place. The churches use this 24th chapter to support the RAPTURE, SECOND COMING, and the TRIBULATION This means all these things that the whole of this 24th chapter of Mathew has already taken place in the Generation that Jesus spoke these things to. 

Luke 11:20,

But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

All these scriptures shows the coming of Jesus and his Kingdom has come already and is a present reality. I know some will say just his Kingdom has come. I will say unto you that a king doesn’t separate himself from his Kingdom. The king dwells in his Kingdom within us as that Great Holy Spirit now within us.
Luke 17:21

You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.”

Luke 17:20,

Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation

1 Thessalonians 5:2,

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Future interpretations are the manifestations of the Antichrist Spirit that hinders us and blinds our eyes from his coming as a present reality.

Remember an (IS COME) is not a future tense. (IS COME) is a present reality. So we see the stumbling stone is at work in allot of people theses days. They definitely are not believing what the scriptures literally say. 
 

Are you sure that you are answering the correct post?   This has nothing to do with what I said.

The wood, hay and stubble are the theories and philosophies of man which give alternatives to what God has plainly said in His Word.   God said plainly that He created the whole universe on the fourth 24 hour day AFTER he created a cool earth surrounded by water.  In the book of Job He said that He spread out the heavens and put every star in its right place.  This shows that God designed and created the universe the way He wanted it, and did it in an instant of time during one 24hr day.

I choose to take God at His word on this, rather than the fallible words of sinful man who came up with evolution through his rebellion against God.

[The Barbarian]

On 8/20/2019 at 12:48 PM, bcbsr said:

Given the present controversies it would be best if all parties were better informed on all these subjects For as Paul writes on a related issue, "They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm."

St. Augustine cited the same scripture:

it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although “they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.” (1 Tim. 1:7)

St. Augustine of Hippo, De Genesi ad Litteram

 

[Mike Mclees]

On 6/6/2020 at 5:38 PM, The Barbarian said:

St. Augustine cited the same scripture:

it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although “they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.” (1 Tim. 1:7)

St. Augustine of Hippo, De Genesi ad Litteram

 

What do you think? Did God give man a mind yet you can't put your hands on it. Have you ever had something pop into your head and realized truth was in it  and when you tried to tell it to any one they would not listen but laugh at you or think you an idiot. I don't know off hand but I could do a little study and find that many who were thought fools but they were right and great things came of it.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Mike Mclees

[The Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

What do you think? Did God give man a mind yet you can't put your hands on it. Have you ever had something pop into your head and realized truth was in it  and when you tried to tell it to any one they would not listen but laugh at you or think you an idiot.

That's the hard part.  For every hundred fools, there's a visionary who's "foolishness" is really genius.    The trick is in knowing how to tell.  In the case of science, it comes down to evidence.   Even then it's sometimes missed.  Wegener, for example was laughed at when he said the evidence shows continents have moved over many hundreds of millions of years.   Only after his death, when they discovered a mechanism for that movement, was he believed.