Where Jesus and John Essenes?

[Guest Zayit]

Para 2.

For there are three philosophical sects among the Jews. The followers of the first of which are the Pharisees; of the second, the Sadducees; and the third sect, which pretends to a severer discipline, are called Essenes. These last are Jews by birth, and seem to have a greater affection for one another than the other sects have. These Essenes reject pleasures as an evil, but esteem continence, and the conquest over our passions, to be virtue. They neglect wedlock, but choose out other persons children, while they are pliable, and fit for learning, and esteem them to be of their kindred, and form them according to their own manners. They do not absolutely deny the fitness of marriage, and the succession of mankind thereby continued; but they guard against the lascivious behavior of women, and are persuaded that none of them preserve their fidelity to one man.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. ............And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

Para 3.

These men are despisers of riches, and so very communicative as raises our admiration. Nor is there any one to be found among them who hath more than another; for it is a law among them, that those who come to them must let what they have be common to the whole order, -- insomuch that among them all there is no appearance of poverty, or excess of riches, but every one's possessions are intermingled with every other's possessions; and so there is, as it were, one patrimony among all the brethren. They think that oil is a defilement; and if any one of them be anointed without his own approbation, it is wiped off his body; for they think to be sweaty is a good thing, as they do also to be clothed in white garments. They also have stewards appointed to take care of their common affairs, who every one of them have no separate business for any, but what is for the uses of them all

.

These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. ..............................And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.....................And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Para 4.

They have no one certain city, but many of them dwell in every city; and if any of their sect come from other places, what they have lies open for them, just as if it were their own; and they go in to such as they never knew before, as if they had been ever so long acquainted with them. For which reason they carry nothing at all with them when they travel into remote parts, though still they take their weapons with them, for fear of thieves. Accordingly, there is, in every city where they live, one appointed particularly to take care of strangers, and to provide garments and other necessaries for them. But the habit and management of their bodies is such as children use who are in fear of their masters. Nor do they allow of the change of or of shoes till be first torn to pieces, or worn out by time. Nor do they either buy or sell any thing to one another; but every one of them gives what he hath to him that wanteth it, and receives from him again in lieu of it what may be convenient for himself; and although there be no requital made, they are fully allowed to take what they want of whomsoever they please.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. ...................................... And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

The quotes are from the Wars of the Jews and underneath them scriptures written by Luke.

[jc49]

Para 2.

For there are three philosophical sects among the Jews. The followers of the first of which are the Pharisees; of the second, the Sadducees; and the third sect, which pretends to a severer discipline, are called Essenes. These last are Jews by birth, and seem to have a greater affection for one another than the other sects have. These Essenes reject pleasures as an evil, but esteem continence, and the conquest over our passions, to be virtue. They neglect wedlock, but choose out other persons children, while they are pliable, and fit for learning, and esteem them to be of their kindred, and form them according to their own manners. They do not absolutely deny the fitness of marriage, and the succession of mankind thereby continued; but they guard against the lascivious behavior of women, and are persuaded that none of them preserve their fidelity to one man.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. ............And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

Para 3.

These men are despisers of riches, and so very communicative as raises our admiration. Nor is there any one to be found among them who hath more than another; for it is a law among them, that those who come to them must let what they have be common to the whole order, -- insomuch that among them all there is no appearance of poverty, or excess of riches, but every one's possessions are intermingled with every other's possessions; and so there is, as it were, one patrimony among all the brethren. They think that oil is a defilement; and if any one of them be anointed without his own approbation, it is wiped off his body; for they think to be sweaty is a good thing, as they do also to be clothed in white garments. They also have stewards appointed to take care of their common affairs, who every one of them have no separate business for any, but what is for the uses of them all

.

These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. ..............................And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.....................And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Para 4.

They have no one certain city, but many of them dwell in every city; and if any of their sect come from other places, what they have lies open for them, just as if it were their own; and they go in to such as they never knew before, as if they had been ever so long acquainted with them. For which reason they carry nothing at all with them when they travel into remote parts, though still they take their weapons with them, for fear of thieves. Accordingly, there is, in every city where they live, one appointed particularly to take care of strangers, and to provide garments and other necessaries for them. But the habit and management of their bodies is such as children use who are in fear of their masters. Nor do they allow of the change of or of shoes till be first torn to pieces, or worn out by time. Nor do they either buy or sell any thing to one another; but every one of them gives what he hath to him that wanteth it, and receives from him again in lieu of it what may be convenient for himself; and although there be no requital made, they are fully allowed to take what they want of whomsoever they please.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. ...................................... And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

The quotes are from the Wars of the Jews and underneath them scriptures written by Luke.

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NO,JESUS and JOHN WERE NOT ESSENES!Camon,you should know better!

[Ovedya]

If I remember correctly (Correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a long time since I've read about the Essenes), the Essenes were a sect of Jews who separated themselves from regular society because they believed that the Jewish traditions, laws, etc. were being perverted.

Given the fact that both Jesus and John broke the Jewish law on several occasions, I doubt that they were Essenes.

[Guest Zayit]

You had to quote my whole post to say that? Did you read it all?

And why should I "know better"?

[Guest Zayit]

If I remember correctly (Correct me if I'm wrong.  It's been a long time since I've read about the Essenes), the Essenes were a sect of Jews who separated themselves from regular society because they believed that the Jewish traditions, laws, etc. were being perverted.

Given the fact that both Jesus and John broke the Jewish law on several occasions, I doubt that they were Essenes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jesus broke his own laws? You are gonna have to support that with scripture please.

[jc49]

You had to quote my whole post to say that? Did you read it all?

And why should I "know better"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

because from other posts of yours you seemed to have a better knowledge of God and His Word than coming with this Essenes thing about Jesus and John that is a Masonic blasphemy....

But if I was wrong,sorry....

[Ovedya]

If I remember correctly (Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Guest Zayit]

You had to quote my whole post to say that? Did you read it all?

And why should I "know better"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

because from other posts of yours you seemed to have a better knowledge of God and His Word than coming with this Essenes thing about Jesus and John that is a Masonic blasphemy....

But if I was wrong,sorry....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reallly? I eschew anything to do with secret knowledge, and don't get me started on the Masons................

I just was reading through Joshephus and saw many similarities, and it seems to only be in the writings of Luke which is intriging. Just thought some might want to explore this. And the priesthood of the temple was corrupt. not what HaShem set up originally, John was of the true priesthood, a Levitical priest, actually a Cohanim, which means he by appointment of G-d could have been the "High Priest'. And his wife Elishiva was also of Aarons line, so their child John was fully an Aaronic Priest.

[Guest Zayit]

Ah, ah, ah....Don't change the perspective on me.  The Essenes were a strict sect of Jews that separated themselves from the common Jewish society because they believed that the Scribes and Pharisees were corrupt, and that the comon practice of following the Law was compromised. 

Therefore, being an Essene had a higher standard.  It is likely that because the Lord violated the Law on several occasions even the Essenes would have rejected Him.  The fact that the Lord had the freedom to break His own Law is inconsequential to the argument, since we need to take their perspective into consideration.  The Scribes and Pharisees didn't recognize the Lord Jesus for who He was, and there is no indication that the Essenes did either.  In fact, even most of the apostles didn't even recognize Him for who He truly was.

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No , really this is essential to why you don't believe that there was much Essene thought in the recordings of Luke. Please show me where Yeshua broke any of his Fathers laws, because if he did, he is NOT Messiah.

[Ovedya]

Okay....back up. Stop the wagon train.

I just looked up the Essenes on the web and everything I wrote about them was wrong: http://www.essenespirit.com/who.html

This website asserts that, "...almost all of the principal founders of what would later be called Christianity were Essenes."

I disagree with that for this reason: "They were not limited to a single religion, but studied all of them in order to extract the great scientific principles. They considered each religion to be a different stage of a single revelation. They accorded great importance to the teachings of the ancient Chaldeans, of Zoroaster, of Hermes Trismegiste, to the secret instructions of Moses and of one of the founding Masters of their order who had transmitted techniques similar to those of Buddhism, as well as to the revelation of Enoch."

So now my question is, if what this website asserts is indeed true, why would the Lord Jesus associate Himself with a sect of people that adhered to a mixture of pagan religions?