omega2xx Posted December 10, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, one.opinion said: There are Bible scholars that disagree with this. There are apparently exceptions to this conclusion in a few Old Testament examples. Here is a comment from Dr. Rodney Whitefield. There is much more at the following link: https://godandscience.org/youngearth/yom_with_number.pdf Let me start by saying Archer and Geisler are excellent, conservative Bible scholars, but so is McArther. It is not uncommon for good Bible scholars to disagree on some points. The first thing we need to agree on is that yom can and does refer to a 24 hour day in more verses than where it can refer to an extended period of time. One problem is that the references in the verses is taken from the KJ, which is not the most accurate translation. The KJ does not have definite articles, but the NASB does. and it is a much more accurate translation. Gen 1:5 - KJ - And God called the light day, and he darkness He called night, And the evening and the morning were the first day. NASB - And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night, and there was evening and morning one day. You can't just ignore the use of the word meaning day, when every time it has a number with it it ALWAYS means a 24 hour day. Also, plant life was created on the third day and he sun was created on the fourth day. Plants can't live more than a few days without the sun. IMO God planned it that way, so we would know in Gen 1, a day had to be 24 hours. There are more than 2 scholars who will agree yom in Genesis 1, means 24 hours, and I don't think you will be able to overcome the fact that when used with a number it always means 24 hours, and there is no Biblical support that yom ever refers to a creation period of time. Even thought I disagree with the conclusions of the article, it was a good article. Thanks .Love, peace joy Edited December 10, 2019 by omega2xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega2xx Posted December 10, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, The Barbarian said: It's YE creationism. So I'd have to agree with you. But you have to admit it's less weird than most other forms of YE creationism. The only form YE creationist have is trying to determine the age of the earth from Gen 5. It is not weird at all,. There is even some logic to doing it that way. That wouldn't be an impediment for a YE creationist. Who cares? Aardsma is a physicist, so he would know more than you or I. Speak for yourself. He doesn't know more about the Bible than I do and the nonsense you posted from him proves he is not a Bible scholar. But my thought is "why not just accept the evidence as it is?" I have you haven't. I have shown you 2 things that make yom in Genesis 1, limited to 24 hours. When it is used with a number and plants can't live millions of years without the sun. You have failed to reply to both of my comments, Why is that? You have no response validating you are wrong. and can't support your OPINION. When you have no answer, you just ignore it. Bottom line, it's no stranger than other new revisions by YE creationists. What are the new revisions of YE creationists. His article was about as weird as it gets. love peace joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,088 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, omega2xx said: I have you haven't. I have shown you 2 things that make yom in Genesis 1, limited to 24 hours. When it is used with a number and plants can't live millions of years without the sun. I pointed out that there is no such rule for the word in Hebrew, and I also pointed out that traditional Christians realize that the text itself says that the "yom" are not periods of time, so there's no concern that the sun doesn't appear in the story at once. You have failed to respond to either of my comments, for reasons we all understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega2xx Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 10 hours ago, The Barbarian said: I pointed out that there is no such rule for the word in Hebrew, You still haven't learned that you saying something does not make it true. I have given you how yom is used. If you don't accept it, that is your problem. and I also pointed out that traditional Christians realize that the text itself says that the "yom" are not periods of time, so there's no concern that the sun doesn't appear in the story at once. In other words you have no explanation. What is a traditional Christians? Conservative Christians agree that in Genesis 1, refers to a 24 hour day. Evidently you don't really understand the word. Yom can refer to an unspecified PERIOD OF TIME You might try to educate the traditional Christians, whatever that is, instead of me. Oh I forgot, you don't understand how yom is used, so you need to educated yourself first. Would you like me to explain it to you again? You have failed to respond to either of my comments, for reasons we all understand. I have no idea what you are talking about. You still haven't explained how plant life survived millions of years without the sun, for reasons we all understand. Love, peace, joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, omega2xx said: You still haven't learned that you saying something does not make it true. I have given you how yom is used. If you don't accept it, that is your problem. You showed earlier that you respect Geisler. Perhaps I gave too much to read in my last post, so I'll focus what he says a bit. Quote “Numbered days need not be solar. Neither is there a rule of Hebrew language demanding that all numbered days in a series refer to twenty-four-hour days." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,088 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 24 minutes ago, omega2xx said: You still haven't learned that you saying something does not make it true. So you saying that "yom" used with a number has to mean a period of time,is just your opinion. You saying something does not make it true. I have given you how yom is used. If you don't accept it, that is your problem. I've shown you that Christians over 1500 years ago were aware that the yom of Genesis did not represent literal days. 26 minutes ago, omega2xx said: I have no idea what you are talking about. But they knew what they were talking about. And that's the point. 13 minutes ago, one.opinion said: “Numbered days need not be solar. Neither is there a rule of Hebrew language demanding that all numbered days in a series refer to twenty-four-hour days." And he's citing someone who actually does know what he's talking about. Since we know the "days" are not literal ones, there's no need to imagine " plant life survived millions of years without the sun." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 In addition to quoting Geisler and Gleason, Whiteside added his own analysis. Quote My analysis will first consider the numbering of the singular word “yom” from the numbers two (second) through six (sixth). 1. READING GENESIS ONE: Comparing Biblical Hebrew with English Translation ISBN 0-9728782-0-3 The book is available from Amazon.com The Table of Contents is available for viewing online at the website creationingenesis.com 1 of 3 A review of the Hebrew text of the Bible finds: (1) Each of the Hebrew numberings expressed by “yom” + ordinal number used in Genesis 1:8, Genesis 1:13, Genesis 1:19, Genesis 1:23, and Genesis 1:31 ( i.e., five of the six creative times) appear only one time in the Bible. (2) Where “yom” is numbered in other verses, the reader almost always finds that the number is prefixed by the Hebrew letter “heh” the prefix meaning “the.” This is illustrated by Archer’s harison “the first” and hasseni “the second.” In these words, the Hebrew letter is pronounced with a following “a” vowel leading to ha + rison and ha + sseni , where the ha represents the phonetic pronunciation of the Hebrew prefix and the following vowel. (3) In other verses where “yom” is numbered, the reader almost always finds one of the following: a. “In yom,” i.e., “yom” prefixed by the letter “beth,” a preposition meaning “in” or “on.” b. “And in yom,” i.e., “in yom” with the added prefix “waw” meaning “and.” c. Or, infrequently, “yom” with a different preceding prefix or preposition. These may be the attached prefixes meaning “to,” “and,” or the unattached preposition meaning “until.” Quote Conclusion: What does all the foregoing mean for understanding Genesis 1? 1) The uniqueness of the Hebrew numbering of the creative “yom” actually supports the view that the creative “yom” are not ordinary (24-hour) days. 2) The numbering of the creative “yom” does not exclude the “extended period” or “age” meaning of the Hebrew word “yom” when referring to the six creative times. The unique numbering of the creative times adds support for the “extended period” or “age” meaning. 3) There are no other applicable examples of the numbering of a sequence that is equivalent to the numbering of the creative “yom.” Assertions which attempt to interpret numberings which read “yom” “second” using numberings which read “in yom” “the second” are flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega2xx Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, one.opinion said: You showed earlier that you respect Geisler. Perhaps I gave too much to read in my last post, so I'll focus what he says a bit. Geisler is a very good Bible scholar but no one has perfect theology and MrAuther is just as good as he is. I read it all, and told you He did not use the most accurate translation. then I gave you the translation of Geneis 1:5 from the NASB, which is considered one of the most accurate translations available.. To understand a passage shouldn't we use the most accurate translation? It says, God called the light day and the darkness He called night, and there was evening and morning ONE DAY. Why are you ignoring that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega2xx Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, omega2xx said: Geisler is a very good Bible scholar but no one has perfect theology and MrAuther is just as good as he is. I read it all, and told you He did not use the most accurate translation. then I gave you the translation of Geneis 1:5 from the NASB, which is considered one of the most accurate translations available.. To understand a passage shouldn't we use the most accurate translation? It says, God called the light day and the darkness He called night, and there was evening and morning ONE DAY. Why are you ignoring that? Numbered days need not be solar. Right, but they can be, and there is no Scriptural basis for saying they were not. Neither is there a rule of Hebrew language demanding that all numbered days in a series refer to twenty-four-hour days." Right again, but many times a passage must be interpreted in light of how a word is used in in other passages. Since yom can be and is used meaning 24 hours, and that is how it is used most of the time, there is no reason to take one passage and say it is not 24 hours with no logical reason. Evolutionists need the word to not mean 24 hours because they need million of years to make TOE seem plausible. That is not how it should be done. If you use the most accurate translation, you have to conclude yom refers to a 24 hour day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted December 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, omega2xx said: Geisler is a very good Bible scholar but no one has perfect theology and MrAuther is just as good as he is. I'm not comparing Biblical scholars, just pointing out that the translation is not as clear as you believe. There is more room for interpretation in the actual Bible passages than you think. 6 minutes ago, omega2xx said: I read it all, and told you He did not use the most accurate translation. then I gave you the translation of Geneis 1:5 from the NASB, which is considered one of the most accurate translations available.. The translation is irrelevant since Biblical scholars use the actual ancient languages, not modern English. 9 minutes ago, omega2xx said: It says, God called the light day and the darkness He called night, and there was evening and morning ONE DAY. Why are you ignoring that? I'm not ignoring it, you are making a false accusation. I'm simply pointing out that the actual Bible, in the languages used for writing it, are not as clearly translated into modern English as you are trying to convince us. It is not my intention to talk you out of your interpretation (you clearly have your mind made up), but hoping you will realize that other interpretations can be true to the Bible. It is simply incorrect to state - "This is the what the Bible says. Deal with it." Original language and original context are important considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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